just_dave Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Don't you guys remember the old grade school science trick where you stack books on eggs? Which would be stronger... chicken eggs or carbon fiber eggs? Concave is world's stronger than a flat cone. The material isn't what makes the cone strong, it's the shape. So, a paper or plastic concave cone would be just as strong as a carbon fiber concave cone of the same dimensions? Given a stress test, which do you think would win? My nut-hugging meter is through the roof in this thread. Rusty could take a dump and stamp a DC logo on it and you guys would be lining up all wanting a wiff. Show us a DC product that isn't worth respect. 2005 Ford Explorer Pioneer Premier DEH-P800PRS Alpine MRP-F550 Kicker KX600.1 Alpine Type-X 6.5's And a Big Thanks to Clay of A Team Audio for the DC Level 3-12" Sub! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPimpin91 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Show us a DC product that isn't worth respect. BigPimpin91's Banging Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyk90 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Show us a DC product that isn't worth respect. How about a pair of lvl4's getting beat out by a pair of crunch ground pounder 12's? With more power on the lvl4's. Go ahead and say what you want, but flat cones haven't been used before for a reason. Joint failures are imminent. Think of it like this. A coil is pushing against a normal concave cone during excursion. The cone holds up because the outward pressure is held in by the cone structure. A coil pushing against a flat surface does not have the same resistance. There is also significantly less area for the former to join to the cone. On a normal cone the former can be glued from both sides, making the bond super strong. With a flat cone, it can only be adhered to the back side, greatly reducing strength. Granted that the carbon fiber construction WILL help with this issue, but I see absolutely zero benefits of using a flat carbon fiber cone versus a concave one (i.e. dd composite cones). You still lose overall cone area and a great amount of strength. People who think concave cones cause cancellation are just using that as an excuse to ride DC's nuts. I stand by what I said. If I'm proven wrong, then so be it. There's a reason that flat cones haven't been used since the eD/PPI era, especially in high SPL applications. They just don't work. FYI, I still want to see pictures of the cone-to-former bond. I like how thats the one picture that wasn't taken. Edited December 13, 2009 by tommyk90 Team B2, Team Audiotechnix, Team Kicker, Team XS Power, Team Sundown, Team Maxxsonics, Team DD2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 Regional and National Champion2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 and 2012 MECA Champion (S1, SR1, S2, S3, S4, DB1) -1 DD 9510F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ .7 ohm strapped=154.2 headrest, 129.2 driveby-2 DD 9510F's + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=154.0 headrest-1 DD 9512F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=153.5 headrest, 131.1 Driveby -2 DD 9512F + 2 B2 Zero1's @ .5 strapped= 157.0 headrest, 158.0 outlaw-1 Sundown SA-8 + 2 MB Quart 2000's=148.8 headrest, 150.6 outlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyk90 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Which would be stronger... chicken eggs or carbon fiber eggs?So, a paper or plastic concave cone would be just as strong as a carbon fiber concave cone of the same dimensions? Given a stress test, which do you think would win? Both of these lines are completely beyond the point. Of course a carbon fiber cone of the same style will be stronger than a paper cone. I'm comparing a flat carbon fiber cone to a concave paper cone, which are not even close to being the same. Chicken eggs or carbon fiber eggs? Please. Look at all the loudest vehicles in the world and take a look at what type of cone they use (minus the fact that most of them run DD). Team B2, Team Audiotechnix, Team Kicker, Team XS Power, Team Sundown, Team Maxxsonics, Team DD2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 Regional and National Champion2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 and 2012 MECA Champion (S1, SR1, S2, S3, S4, DB1) -1 DD 9510F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ .7 ohm strapped=154.2 headrest, 129.2 driveby-2 DD 9510F's + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=154.0 headrest-1 DD 9512F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=153.5 headrest, 131.1 Driveby -2 DD 9512F + 2 B2 Zero1's @ .5 strapped= 157.0 headrest, 158.0 outlaw-1 Sundown SA-8 + 2 MB Quart 2000's=148.8 headrest, 150.6 outlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristan560 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 How about a pair of lvl4's getting beat out by a pair of crunch ground pounder 12's?With more power on the lvl4's. Go ahead and say what you want, but flat cones haven't been used before for a reason. Joint failures are imminent. Think of it like this. A coil is pushing against a normal concave cone during excursion. The cone holds up because the outward pressure is held in by the cone structure. A coil pushing against a flat surface does not have the same resistance. There is also significantly less area for the former to join to the cone. On a normal cone the former can be glued from both sides, making the bond super strong. With a flat cone, it can only be adhered to the back side, greatly reducing strength. Granted that the carbon fiber construction WILL help with this issue, but I see absolutely zero benefits of using a flat carbon fiber cone versus a concave one (i.e. dd composite cones). I stand by what I said. If I'm proven wrong, then so be it. There's a reason that flat cones haven't been used since the eD/PPI era, especially in high SPL applications. They just don't work. FYI, I still want to see pictures of the cone-to-former bond. I like how thats the one picture that wasn't taken. Its all about the install bud. And this is coming from a guy ON TEAM KICKER! :01nocomment8so: Wow... <u>99 Jimmy SLT 4WD</u> Systemless. <u>99 Grand Prix GTP</u> DC XL 12 on 1.5k tuned lowwwwww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyk90 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) You seem to be jumping to some quick conclusions, i feel the misinformation is being spread by you. You are correct about the cone shape making it strong, but i will tell you this, the cone we are testing out here although flat has much more strength then a paper cone. After all i am not completely stupid. It wouldnt make much sense to "upgrade" to something not as strong. This first sub we did the cone on is only for first tests, and not the finished product, not that the former cone connection is ugly. The parts for this will be machined very shortly, and again once we have actual production assemblies made i will be testing them vs paper once again. On that note i have yet to put this to the test, you will have to wait a bit. We will see if we can get a single XL 15 over the 178 mark. Nut hug that. You know what I'm sick of? Companies posting pictures of products that aren't out of the prototype phase to generate all kinds of hype. This should have stayed under wraps until everything was said and done, because in the end if it ends up not working then who is the one with their thumbs up their butts? Certainly not me. This is almost as bad as the fake T3 TSNS that jd posted everywhere. But I guess DC got what they wanted. A bunch of people begging for stuff that hasn't even proven itself yet. Excuse me for not buying into the hype and bullsh*t. Edited December 13, 2009 by tommyk90 Team B2, Team Audiotechnix, Team Kicker, Team XS Power, Team Sundown, Team Maxxsonics, Team DD2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 Regional and National Champion2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 and 2012 MECA Champion (S1, SR1, S2, S3, S4, DB1) -1 DD 9510F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ .7 ohm strapped=154.2 headrest, 129.2 driveby-2 DD 9510F's + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=154.0 headrest-1 DD 9512F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=153.5 headrest, 131.1 Driveby -2 DD 9512F + 2 B2 Zero1's @ .5 strapped= 157.0 headrest, 158.0 outlaw-1 Sundown SA-8 + 2 MB Quart 2000's=148.8 headrest, 150.6 outlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyk90 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Its all about the install bud.And this is coming from a guy ON TEAM KICKER! :01nocomment8so: Wow... What does being part of team kicker (now defunct) have anything to do with this thread? Just so you know, I'm the one who built and tested that install with the lvl4's versus the ground pounders. Very basic and should have worked well for the lvl4's. 4 cubes net, four 4" aeroports. The crunches were over 1 dB louder and still live to this day. The lvl4's got beat to hell, suspension sagged, and the dustcaps broke. I'm looking for REAL evidence to back up what all these people are claiming. Not a bunch of dick riders saying that everything will be ok because they listen to whatever lines a company will feed them. I've probably done more SPL testing than 95% of this forum, so I feel that I'm allowed to state my opinions. You don't become a national champion in two completely different competition organizations by listening to what others have to say. You go out there and find out for yourself. But I will say this. If the A team tests these cones and discovers that they are great, then perhaps I will reconsider my opinion. But even with that consideration, I take a look at who they are. A great team of guys who live and die by DC. Do you really think they would ever say anything bad about DC, even if the product didn't live up to their expectations? I doubt it. The problem I'm running in to nowadays when trying to get opinions on different companies is a lot of people are extremely biased. These guys are DC. Those guys are T3. Guys overe there are Fi. Who am I supposed to get an unbiased opinion from? All the forums nowadays are full of ass kissers and people looking for a handout/discount, IMO. Edited December 13, 2009 by tommyk90 Team B2, Team Audiotechnix, Team Kicker, Team XS Power, Team Sundown, Team Maxxsonics, Team DD2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 Regional and National Champion2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 and 2012 MECA Champion (S1, SR1, S2, S3, S4, DB1) -1 DD 9510F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ .7 ohm strapped=154.2 headrest, 129.2 driveby-2 DD 9510F's + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=154.0 headrest-1 DD 9512F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=153.5 headrest, 131.1 Driveby -2 DD 9512F + 2 B2 Zero1's @ .5 strapped= 157.0 headrest, 158.0 outlaw-1 Sundown SA-8 + 2 MB Quart 2000's=148.8 headrest, 150.6 outlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt402 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 You know what I'm sick of?Companies posting pictures of products that aren't out of the prototype phase to generate all kinds of hype. This should have stayed under wraps until everything was said and done, because in the end if it ends up not working then who is the one with their thumbs up their butts? Certainly not me. But I guess DC got what they wanted. A bunch of people begging for stuff that hasn't even proven itself yet. DC FTMFW!!! im an asshole... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyk90 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) DC FTMFW!!!im an asshole... And just like I said, if the cones end up working, then they will have done something that no other company could do. Granted I still don't think the flat cones will be benficial in any way, so all the work is for nothing. Edited December 13, 2009 by tommyk90 Team B2, Team Audiotechnix, Team Kicker, Team XS Power, Team Sundown, Team Maxxsonics, Team DD2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 Regional and National Champion2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 and 2012 MECA Champion (S1, SR1, S2, S3, S4, DB1) -1 DD 9510F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ .7 ohm strapped=154.2 headrest, 129.2 driveby-2 DD 9510F's + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=154.0 headrest-1 DD 9512F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=153.5 headrest, 131.1 Driveby -2 DD 9512F + 2 B2 Zero1's @ .5 strapped= 157.0 headrest, 158.0 outlaw-1 Sundown SA-8 + 2 MB Quart 2000's=148.8 headrest, 150.6 outlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.p Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 first off ive seen ateams sub in action last show, it is not a prototype it is a fully functioning woofer. second, i think you are wrong with the cone/former joint a properly machined former adapter (much like TC has used in the past) will prove to be just as strong of a joint as a concave cone joint. if the adapter is machined to slide inside of the former, you get glue joints on the inside of the adapter, outside, inside and outside of the former. also the piece will increase the surface area to which the former is pressing against the flat cone. but what would i know i havent set 3 organization nationwide records? i guess that is a prerequisite to knowing it all nowadays. DCAUDIO BALLS DEEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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