adam6604 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 anyone have a slight guess of what it would cost to deaden my extended cab ram? i have my back seat out and have bare metal, and will take out the side panels.. so just the back and the doors.. im half way done my box for 2 15'' re sx subs so i need to deaden it.. if deadener is too expensive ill just do P&S cause im on a budget..lol Driving my 2008 Dodge Ram 2500 MEGA cab with the 5.7 hemi. Audio: Two 10" Alpine Type R's ( 1000rms models ) Hifonics BRZ 2400.1D @ .5 ohm Two Kinetic 1400 batteries ( soon to have XS power under hood ) Tsunami 1/0 Awg wire throughout truck. Stock Infinity 7 speaker system ( Junk ) soon to be replaced, probably all Alpine. Exterior: 17"Dick cepek rims with 33" Toyo MT tires Bushwacker fender flares Magnaflow true duel exhaust LED tail lights with Projector headlights Plasti-dip fun coming soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Skin Rep Jon Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 anyone have a slight guess of what it would cost to deaden my extended cab ram? i have my back seat out and have bare metal, and will take out the side panels.. so just the back and the doors.. im half way done my box for 2 15'' re sx subs so i need to deaden it.. if deadener is too expensive ill just do P&S cause im on a budget..lol I'd estimate $150 or so. And please go back and read through this thread as to why NOT to use P&S. Have a question about Second Skin? E-Mail me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Skin Rep Jon Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 To everyone who reads this, please go back to page one and read the edited first post of this thread before replying! Thank you. Have a question about Second Skin? E-Mail me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullz Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Got anymore samples? Been thinking on getting some to do my doors with since i will be making some changes to the gear i have. 01 Ford focus ZX3 Pioneer AVH-X491BHS PPI PC 4800.2 Morel Maximo 6.5" x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Skin Rep Jon Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Got anymore samples? Been thinking on getting some to do my doors with since i will be making some changes to the gear i have. Not at this moment. I sent out dozens of samples a few weeks ago and haven't bothered to restock my personal stash. Have a question about Second Skin? E-Mail me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo Posted June 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 anyone have a slight guess of what it would cost to deaden my extended cab ram? i have my back seat out and have bare metal, and will take out the side panels.. so just the back and the doors.. im half way done my box for 2 15'' re sx subs so i need to deaden it.. if deadener is too expensive ill just do P&S cause im on a budget..lol I think you need about 40 square feet. I just finished a ranger and i did the roof, side doors and back wall and little on the bottom where the sub sat. I think i went over kill but now that is almost complete i hear no rattles just the little sliding window on the back. I suggest save little more money and get something better than peel and seal. there are many brands but just buy Second Skin, their product is really great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo Posted June 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Got anymore samples? Been thinking on getting some to do my doors with since i will be making some changes to the gear i have. Not at this moment. I sent out dozens of samples a few weeks ago and haven't bothered to restock my personal stash. I was one of the lucky ones... that stuff really works! Dynomat or other brands will never step in my front door delivered, unless customers bring then, then they can pay the price later : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass2TheeFace Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Time to blow some minds and explain why mass loaders and roofing products (i.e. P&S) are inefficient for controlling vibrations. When it comes to sound deadening there are typically three types of products used, mass loaders, FLDs, and CLDs. Mass loaders are exactly what they sound like, they add mass to lower the resonance frequency of the panel. Asphalt based products typically fall into this category because they lack the viscoelastic properties that the butyl products do. Mass loading was a popular technique in years past, but mass loading is EXTREMELY ineffective. Why? You need to apply approximately four times the weight of the panel to drop the panels resonance just one octave. I don't know about you, but I don't want 100 pound doors just to listen to my music clearly. The other two types of products are CLDs (constrained layer dampers) and FLDs (free-layer dampers). CLDs include Dynamat, Damplifier, Audio Wrap, SDS Tiles, etc. Simply put, CLDs convert the vibrational energy into low level negligible heat. The reason P&S ISN'T an effective or efficient CLD is the fact it doesn't have a thick enough constraining layer (foil) to do any good. FLDs include products like Spectrum, LizardSkin, Cascade VB-1X, etc. There are FLDs that are not liquid, but these are the most common ones in our field. The way FLDs work is that vibrational energy is dissipated as a result of extension and compression of the damping material, vs. a cld where the energy is lost through shear deformation of the material. Typically speaking CLDs have the upper hand over FLDs because of their ability to maintain a higher loss factor across a wider range of frequencies, temperatures, and thicknesses of the substrate. Basically they are more efficient at controlling vibrations. This is especially true when applications require a light weight solution. For instance on a substrate of say 1/8", a cld mat of only 1/16" may be required to control the vibrations. The FLD on the other hand may require three or four times the thickness, so 3/16 to 1/4", to achieve the same loss factor. P&S simply lacks the properties that would make in an effective vibration control product. It's not heavy enough to make a difference (unless you slap on 50+ pounds of the stuff). It doesn't have a thick enough constraining layer to withstand the shear strain of panel flex. It has a poor adhesive (typically consisting of asphalt, bitumen, petroleum distillates, and/or low grade rubber). I've said it once and I'll say it again, DO NOT USE PEEL AND SEAL! Mind exploded? Amen to this... Peel and seal sucks and is a bitch to remove!! Fi BTL 15 N2 D2 -4.5 net..30Hz/Birch and Braced -AQ 2200D running at 4-ohms for meantime... -Big 3 KNU 1/0 -XS 1200 -Sundown 100.4 SAX -Front Stage: CDT CL-61 -Rear: Alpine Type-SA -HeadUnit-Pioneer AVHDVD-3200 -2004 Saturn Ion Best score to Date is a 143.1 at the kick with 2 RF HX2 10's in a PWK box! BUILD LOG---15 BTL...Shit is loud Son!! You TUBE---RIGHT HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass2TheeFace Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Time to blow some minds and explain why mass loaders and roofing products (i.e. P&S) are inefficient for controlling vibrations. When it comes to sound deadening there are typically three types of products used, mass loaders, FLDs, and CLDs. Mass loaders are exactly what they sound like, they add mass to lower the resonance frequency of the panel. Asphalt based products typically fall into this category because they lack the viscoelastic properties that the butyl products do. Mass loading was a popular technique in years past, but mass loading is EXTREMELY ineffective. Why? You need to apply approximately four times the weight of the panel to drop the panels resonance just one octave. I don't know about you, but I don't want 100 pound doors just to listen to my music clearly. The other two types of products are CLDs (constrained layer dampers) and FLDs (free-layer dampers). CLDs include Dynamat, Damplifier, Audio Wrap, SDS Tiles, etc. Simply put, CLDs convert the vibrational energy into low level negligible heat. The reason P&S ISN'T an effective or efficient CLD is the fact it doesn't have a thick enough constraining layer (foil) to do any good. FLDs include products like Spectrum, LizardSkin, Cascade VB-1X, etc. There are FLDs that are not liquid, but these are the most common ones in our field. The way FLDs work is that vibrational energy is dissipated as a result of extension and compression of the damping material, vs. a cld where the energy is lost through shear deformation of the material. Typically speaking CLDs have the upper hand over FLDs because of their ability to maintain a higher loss factor across a wider range of frequencies, temperatures, and thicknesses of the substrate. Basically they are more efficient at controlling vibrations. This is especially true when applications require a light weight solution. For instance on a substrate of say 1/8", a cld mat of only 1/16" may be required to control the vibrations. The FLD on the other hand may require three or four times the thickness, so 3/16 to 1/4", to achieve the same loss factor. P&S simply lacks the properties that would make in an effective vibration control product. It's not heavy enough to make a difference (unless you slap on 50+ pounds of the stuff). It doesn't have a thick enough constraining layer to withstand the shear strain of panel flex. It has a poor adhesive (typically consisting of asphalt, bitumen, petroleum distillates, and/or low grade rubber). I've said it once and I'll say it again, DO NOT USE PEEL AND SEAL! Mind exploded? Amen to this... Peel and seal sucks and is a bitch to remove!! Fi BTL 15 N2 D2 -4.5 net..30Hz/Birch and Braced -AQ 2200D running at 4-ohms for meantime... -Big 3 KNU 1/0 -XS 1200 -Sundown 100.4 SAX -Front Stage: CDT CL-61 -Rear: Alpine Type-SA -HeadUnit-Pioneer AVHDVD-3200 -2004 Saturn Ion Best score to Date is a 143.1 at the kick with 2 RF HX2 10's in a PWK box! BUILD LOG---15 BTL...Shit is loud Son!! You TUBE---RIGHT HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techforce Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Time to blow some minds and explain why mass loaders and roofing products (i.e. P&S) are inefficient for controlling vibrations. When it comes to sound deadening there are typically three types of products used, mass loaders, FLDs, and CLDs. Mass loaders are exactly what they sound like, they add mass to lower the resonance frequency of the panel. Asphalt based products typically fall into this category because they lack the viscoelastic properties that the butyl products do. Mass loading was a popular technique in years past, but mass loading is EXTREMELY ineffective. Why? You need to apply approximately four times the weight of the panel to drop the panels resonance just one octave. I don't know about you, but I don't want 100 pound doors just to listen to my music clearly. The other two types of products are CLDs (constrained layer dampers) and FLDs (free-layer dampers). CLDs include Dynamat, Damplifier, Audio Wrap, SDS Tiles, etc. Simply put, CLDs convert the vibrational energy into low level negligible heat. The reason P&S ISN'T an effective or efficient CLD is the fact it doesn't have a thick enough constraining layer (foil) to do any good. FLDs include products like Spectrum, LizardSkin, Cascade VB-1X, etc. There are FLDs that are not liquid, but these are the most common ones in our field. The way FLDs work is that vibrational energy is dissipated as a result of extension and compression of the damping material, vs. a cld where the energy is lost through shear deformation of the material. Typically speaking CLDs have the upper hand over FLDs because of their ability to maintain a higher loss factor across a wider range of frequencies, temperatures, and thicknesses of the substrate. Basically they are more efficient at controlling vibrations. This is especially true when applications require a light weight solution. For instance on a substrate of say 1/8", a cld mat of only 1/16" may be required to control the vibrations. The FLD on the other hand may require three or four times the thickness, so 3/16 to 1/4", to achieve the same loss factor. P&S simply lacks the properties that would make in an effective vibration control product. It's not heavy enough to make a difference (unless you slap on 50+ pounds of the stuff). It doesn't have a thick enough constraining layer to withstand the shear strain of panel flex. It has a poor adhesive (typically consisting of asphalt, bitumen, petroleum distillates, and/or low grade rubber). I've said it once and I'll say it again, DO NOT USE PEEL AND SEAL! Mind exploded? Uh oh.... I have a bunch of peel n seal I was gonna use on my 8 18 Yukon Build next month. I need to get with you guys about that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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