(Idea) Capacitors In High Amperage Setups

[dereileak]

Before you bash this, go into with an open mind, this is just an idea, haven't tested it, I literally came home and this idea popped in my head for like 2 minutes, so I decided to write something quick, lol, many ideas come from this mind, mentally testing them out in my imagination testing area (my brain) . My favorite part of car audio is beefing up the electrical system of a vehicle to go from being able to take short of a hundred amps to many times that. Now we all know Caps are band-aids without the proper electrical to back them up, but just like they are used in amps, they have a good purpose and can do good. Now my setup is already beefed up, 220 amp mechman (largest for my vehicle), d3400 front, d3100 rear, no voltage issues at all, super stable and happy.

Now my idea is this, yea 1-3 farad caps are pretty small, useless, and wont do much for big systems, but caps can be useful, as they output energy very very quickly, quicker then any battery could, although modern AGM batteries are very fast nowadays. Anyways, in theory if a person were to say put a cap into a system already setup for major amperage, I would believe that it could help stiffen voltage a lot. Now I wouldn't consider anything small, I was thinking of something around 500-1000+ farads, that would allow for a system to keep the voltage from ever really dropping in normal use. Yes when the cap completely depletes it will drain on the electrical system trying to charge, but the idea is that you will never drain it hardly at all and it also reduces strain during times when the alt needs to send power to other things (not that we can control that, lol). We all have had those moments even with our extreme upgraded systems where the voltage may drop for a split second due to demand and the alts response lag and the batteries response lag. I believe that a cap of this size could be very useful in an application like this, allowing time for main charging parts of the vehicle to catch up and keeping the voltage completely stable, especially when every volt counts in things like db drags and that.

The reason I brought this up is that it seems car audio people have thrown the idea of ever using one because of the rep they got for inexperience people using them as band-aids on shitty charging systems, but I have yet to see someone use them in a large setup in large sizes. I was reading an article about a 500 or so farad cap that the military used to start there vehicles, it was capable of starting a big truck several times before completely depleting, and can be quickly charged again, mind the truck had no car battery, only the cap. The cao could also be charge with several D batteries or a hand crank device.

Another use with caps, like mentioned earlier, is voltage stabilization, like when used in a 12v to a 5v regulator. Although you do not need to use caps with a 5v regulator, they can help stiffen the voltage, with one cap connected between the input 12v and ground, and the other cap going from the 5v output to the same ground.

All in all, this is just an idea, many of you will have setups that wouldn't benefit from this, if I had the money I would experience with this a bit, as I see it as possibly a usable tool. Others may see increased voltage stiffness and would help when you pull hundreds of amps that your alt and battery are not ready for.

Not sure on this information, but one thing I read was that the alt would have to be fully maximized before the cap will kick in, and with this idea it would help reduce lag time that the batteries would be behind in, also considering the batteries need to have a voltage drop a bit before they can pull large amps out, unless topped off freshly, this idea may not work.

Just googled this, hooking them in series to get the voltage you want, you would have a lot of backup energy

I do realize a car battery is equal to very large caps, but they are built different, and serve a different purpose, as long term backup energy, as a cap is short term backup energy, and for voltage stiffining, although many batteries would stiffen the voltage to with a large alt, there is always room for other types of items, they use caps on motherboards, and many electronics devices to maintain stable voltages, which even as small as .01 volts different could fry out the wrong part (being a computer builder I know, as I modifying voltages on my motherboard to maximize performance and maintain longevity the part.)

In short, this would be like a large version of a circuit on a motherboard. Ever look inside a computer power supply, or your amp, they are full of large capacitors, the more power it can output or handle usually the larger and more they will have, hence shitty amps look like a flat mother board with hardly any beefy parts (although mosfets are pretty small )

[jrchevy87]

i do know that steve meade had used caps on his honda rebuild, capacitors have been used in every electrical device for quite some time for that very purpose so yes it should work, i dont think you'd have to go into the thousands of farads but a cpl hundreds on top of the electrical you have would help with the slower discharge times of batteries and the charging lag of the alt. ive only used a cap once and thats because a customer HAD to have it lol but it was a small 1000 watts rms system, it didnt seem to do anything for his voltage drop as it drops a full volt on heavy low bass notes but its only a 5 farad, maybe somone with some more experience can shed some light on another aspect of using a cap

[Omega5002]

The thing I heard good about using a capacitor is that they filter out bad signals, according to guy I asked, using a special military camera prototype on an H2 hummer at Lockheed Martin, he said he got batteries, 0 guage wire, and a 270 amp alternator from an audio company, so he wasn't using a capacitor to help with keeping stable voltage.

Large capacitors are used in Extremely high end Home audio solid state amplifiers to reduce distortion from what I read also.

Edit: Example of said high end amplifier

[dereileak]

The thing I heard good about using a capacitor is that they filter out bad signals, according to guy I asked, using a special military camera prototype on an H2 hummer at Lockheed Martin, he said he got batteries, 0 guage wire, and a 270 amp alternator from an audio company, so he wasn't using a capacitor to help with keeping stable voltage.

Large capacitors are used in Extremely high end Home audio solid state amplifiers to reduce distortion from what I read also.

Exactly another thing, as alternators make a lot of noise due to how they turn AC to DC, and although battereis help with removing this noise, there is still some there, and a cap could mean the difference between clear amazing, and crystal AUDIOPHIL clear amazing, I would love to test this I suppose amps have caps which help with noise in them, but filtering one more time before going into the amp would just help even more. And although I love just about all music, nothing gives you goosebumps like thousands of watts pushing out the sound of some amazing pianist, to the point when you close your eyes you can't tell that they sound is coming out speakers, and feels like your sitting in front of this amazing piano player, or anytype of music really, guitar, singing, whatever

EDIT**

that is an awesome pic, high end home audio equipment can run in the hundreds of thousands, trying to perfect the art of sound and reproduction, which that pics shows some of the sick guys of such a thing

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especially if they were setup close to the major amplifiers that pulled the power, I think they could help, I guess it comes to this, is it worth the work and money to have this slight removal of lag/voltage stiffness vs the other items a person could use, because if you have large enough alts, you could in theory never dip, such if you alt did 350 amps constant lets say (I know not realistic for idle, but who cares) and your max load ever was only 320 amps, then you would never have a voltage drop, especially with extra batteries, but we all know we are limited to the amount of alts we can put on our cars and sometimes the amperage needs slightly exceed the alts maximum output.

[jrchevy87]

The thing I heard good about using a capacitor is that they filter out bad signals, according to guy I asked, using a special military camera prototype on an H2 hummer at Lockheed Martin, he said he got batteries, 0 guage wire, and a 270 amp alternator from an audio company, so he wasn't using a capacitor to help with keeping stable voltage.

Large capacitors are used in Extremely high end Home audio solid state amplifiers to reduce distortion from what I read also.

Exactly another thing, as alternators make a lot of noise due to how they turn AC to DC, and although battereis help with removing this noise, there is still some there, and a cap could mean the difference between clear amazing, and crystal AUDIOPHIL clear amazing, I would love to test this I suppose amps have caps which help with noise in them, but filtering one more time before going into the amp would just help even more.

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especially if they were setup close to the major amplifiers that pulled the power, I think they could help, I guess it comes to this, is it worth the work and money to have this slight removal of lag/voltage stiffness vs the other items a person could use, because if you have large enough alts, you could in theory never dip, such if you alt did 350 amps constant lets say (I know not realistic for idle, but who cares) and your max load ever was only 320 amps, then you would never have a voltage drop, especially with extra batteries, but we all know we are limited to the amount of alts we can put on our cars and sometimes the amperage needs slightly exceed the alts maximum output.

the lag of an alternator comes from the time it takes for the regulator to send the signal to the alt to tell it to charge, say ur listening to a song that has an intermittent heavy bass note the alt is not gonna be under load and therefore not charging when there is no draw but when the bass hits its gonna put a load on the alt and then its gonna kick in hence the need for extra batts even when you have enough alternator current. but batteries still cant supply power on demand as quickly as some may want or need.

[dereileak]

The thing I heard good about using a capacitor is that they filter out bad signals, according to guy I asked, using a special military camera prototype on an H2 hummer at Lockheed Martin, he said he got batteries, 0 guage wire, and a 270 amp alternator from an audio company, so he wasn't using a capacitor to help with keeping stable voltage.

Large capacitors are used in Extremely high end Home audio solid state amplifiers to reduce distortion from what I read also.

Exactly another thing, as alternators make a lot of noise due to how they turn AC to DC, and although battereis help with removing this noise, there is still some there, and a cap could mean the difference between clear amazing, and crystal AUDIOPHIL clear amazing, I would love to test this I suppose amps have caps which help with noise in them, but filtering one more time before going into the amp would just help even more.

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especially if they were setup close to the major amplifiers that pulled the power, I think they could help, I guess it comes to this, is it worth the work and money to have this slight removal of lag/voltage stiffness vs the other items a person could use, because if you have large enough alts, you could in theory never dip, such if you alt did 350 amps constant lets say (I know not realistic for idle, but who cares) and your max load ever was only 320 amps, then you would never have a voltage drop, especially with extra batteries, but we all know we are limited to the amount of alts we can put on our cars and sometimes the amperage needs slightly exceed the alts maximum output.

the lag of an alternator comes from the time it takes for the regulator to send the signal to the alt to tell it to charge, say ur listening to a song that has an intermittent heavy bass note the alt is not gonna be under load and therefore not charging when there is no draw but when the bass hits its gonna put a load on the alt and then its gonna kick in hence the need for extra batts even when you have enough alternator current. but batteries still cant supply power on demand as quickly as some may want or need.

exactly, which a cap could do, same thing happens in computers, if the voltage sags or dips when a processor goes under load, going from 10watts of power use to 120 watts, yes a chip can use 120watts, some use much more, part of why they require massive cooling, imagine sending 120 watts of power through millions and billions of organized switches smaller then human hairs several fold, to a chip the size of a dime. Also as a lot of energy is turned into heat, anyways, a voltage sag in this situation would cause a crash of the chip, causing no damage, but annoying, and then comes the use of caps, and things like load line protection, which boosts voltage to keep it stable, the idea is using this idea in a vehicles electrical system

[jrchevy87]

i think we need a test vehicle lol, it sux to have ideas and have no way of determining whether they work in real world situations or not

[dereileak]

i think we need a test vehicle lol, it sux to have ideas and have no way of determining whether they work in real world situations or not

Yea exactly, if someone donates a 500 farad cap I would happily install and test the idea I was going to read the voltages going to my alts regulator too, as mechman don't make a harness to control the voltage of the alt, and as its internally regulated, my idea was to trick the alt into thinking it was loaded the whole time by telling it the voltage was lower/higher then it really is causing a constant 14.6 voltage, or giving it a modified base voltage which it would determine to up the voltage more, not knowing its going up to 14.6, thinking its at 14.0 or something, as the max it hits now is 14.2 as the car wants to use the alt for maximum fuel efficiency, and usually hangs around 13.6-13.8 normally, and amps push more watts when they get up to a higher charging voltage which I want power from, lol (but I have to see what each wire is doing and controls, trying to find wiring schematics for my vehicle )

[jrchevy87]

i think we need a test vehicle lol, it sux to have ideas and have no way of determining whether they work in real world situations or not

Yea exactly, if someone donates a 500 farad cap I would happily install and test the idea I was going to read the voltages going to my alts regulator too, as mechman don't make a harness to control the voltage of the alt, and as its internally regulated, my idea was to trick the alt into thinking it was loaded the whole time by telling it the voltage was lower/higher then it really is causing a constant 14.6 voltage, or giving it a modified base voltage which it would determine to up the voltage more, not knowing its going up to 14.6, thinking its at 14.0 or something, as the max it hits now is 14.2 as the car wants to use the alt for maximum fuel efficiency, and usually hangs around 13.6-13.8 normally, and amps push more watts when they get up to a higher charging voltage which I want power from, lol (but I have to see what each wire is doing and controls, trying to find wiring schematics for my vehicle )

i havent done too much studying on tricking alts, i was kinda wondering the same thing but i dont want to run the risk of screwing anything up. if you have the room you could add an aftermarket externally regulated alternator to supplement your voltage(thats my next project after i get my new amp and sub just gotta make a bracket cuz i cant find one for my jeep)

edit: sorry for getting a little off topic lol

[White Lightning]

I wouldn't waste my time on using a capacitor on a 12volt battery system ... Hell, I wouldn't even use one of those to use as my boat anchor, might contaminate the water ...