We have all helped to kill the local dealers...

[audiofanaticz]

Id agree with the above.

I myself support local shops, Ive worked for one for a bit. The shop is not no where near what it could be, but there are other reasons behind that and really have nothing to do with the "internet killing local shops". Theres been many times that I will still buy local, but of coarse the price has to be right, or at least in reasonable range. Normally I can walk out with product 10-20% above dealer cost which is often times cheaper however 1 shop in my town limits my options of brands of coarse. However my old boss Ive known for a long time and knows how easy it is for a person to buy online and get things much cheaper, so he rarely charges MSRP to anyone just because making little on selling a product is better than not making nothing. I personally think many other shops need to think that way too. Plus its nice to have that local shop that maybe there for you to lend a hand with trouble shooting.

There is a really nice shop in Madison, WI (2.5hours away) going thru hard times right now. When I first started competing years ago I was in love with the shop, it was worth the trip to the comp just to check out some new product that was always up to date. The show rooms, the employees, and how they always supported competitions, and had 2-3 shows a year for a good 5+ years that I remember if not longer. The shop was always nice, however they lost a lot due to a faulty neon sine transformer that caused a decent fire. The place was remodeled and had 4 separate demo rooms with a couple different headunits in each room. One room was all Rainbow and Alumapro product, another room was Memphis, a room for a/d/s and Diamond, than a room for some of your cheaper brands such as pioneer, alpine, orion, kenwood, and jvc. The place was set up nice with good mood lighting (not to bright, but not too dark. Now this place has 3 employees working iirc including the owner when there use to be 5 installers and 3 guys on the sales floor than the owner and the accountant (his wife). The demo rooms are for the most part gutted, not much product on display. Great shop, but they where hard on pricing MSRP all the way, high shop labor (tho at the time it was worth it). Even through the bad economy the shop was doing well up til the last 2 years or so but now do to more and more people shopping online and the bullheaded owner set in his ways its coming back to bit him in the ass, and biting hard! Its a shame but at the end of the day he is the only person to blame, its not the customers fault who got smarter or at least started to do research.

The thing about me tho is I dont care from time to time, if its local and its in stock and maybe 25-75 bucks more than a internet price but still under MSRP I will normally buy said product just so I can have it the same day. I know some people can be penny pinchers and would rather wait to save a few bucks, I still say a guy should give his local shop at least 1 chance before placing the online orders, and if the shop cant help you out or work with yu than you can at least say you tried to make an attempt to keep your money locally.

Hell Ive drove to a town 40miles away already just to pick up 30 1/0gauge ring terminals from a shop, but that was more so because they where needed right now and couldnt wait the average 3-7 business days to get them from the internet

[Ram]

[ParishTanner]

Well you didn't kill it,

My personal and professional opinion from many years doing this is the following

as quoted above (sorry Parrish, I didn't read your novel) "the dealers didn't change with the internet" Which i believe is 100% true. After all, you cant just build and say they will come. you have to market yourself and the company otherwise you are missing out, further the company needs professionalism for repeat business. Further, shop owners have to market to the correct clientele. if they market to the people looking for the cheapest equipment, then you are going to have a return of pennies on the dollar. Looking for customers on a forum is whacked and a waste of time... unless you have a bunch of time and resources to commit to it. I personally visit forums to support a few friends and also learn of new things out on the market, maybe even find things for the market. This forum... I like to support Steve, after the RF forum and the rash of crap he received on a forum that died off long ago, he can say "look at me now" which I love! The little guy that doesnt give up or slow down!

Now there is also other factors that are involved also, such as the industry in general, starting with the CEA all the way to the lowest guy in the industry which seriously might be the internet retailers in term of human value.

So in a nut shell... it is what it is, either change or fail, shops can't blame anyone except themselves. We get in a groove, and used to doing business one way for many of years, and never really look at adapting to newer trends. And shop owners, i know it takes time and resources, and after a full days of work their is usually little

I do not blame anyone shopping the internet for product, hell I do it all the time for stuff, I don't have to talk to anyone, I don't have to make the pilgrimage anywhere, I don't have to leave my computer, and hell, if I need something within 5 minutes at my desk I can find it, buy it, and have it sent for the next day...

Lol, No worries Jim! I know i got rolling and it had not laid out those thoughts in writing like that before and when I got roling, well I got on a roll! LOL

"the dealers didn't change with the internet"

I agree many dealers have not changed. Many have. Personally I feel the internet is a VERY intricate part of how we go to market. It must be. Heck you know that as we have talked extensively on internet marketing a few years back.

I read a lot on the forums but don't post much on most of them. I am more of an observer in most cases. I respect and learn a lot from the DIY crowd. Hell the DIY crowd gets to experiment in ways retail stores can not. We must work with in proven techniques and time lines when we are being paid for a certain job.

Personally I really do enjoy coming in and seeing the energy and excitement of the DIY forums. But when I do read and shop owners are being bashed left and right, being a shop owner, it makes me more than a little apprehensive of posting. Dont want to get attacked.

Any local guys are more than welcome to come experience my Retail Store at any time to see exactly how we operate. We are not here ripping people off, we try to add value to what we are offering. We are just men, just like the DIY guys. simple ordinary men. We try to treat the client with the respect the desire, and ask the same.

Please also understand that many times you may come in and we just had to deal with a COMPLETE IDIOT that is clueless and we are still recovering from that. Hell just last night we were ready to close up for the day when a gentleman comes in with a 1500 watt inverter needing power wire to hook it up. In my judgment I tried to educate him that he needed a minimum of 4 gauge power wire and an ANL fuse holder. But after spending over 20 minutes with him we had to agree to disagree as he felt even paying $20 was WAY too much money for wire and we were out of line for suggesting a fuse. It is after all only a short 6-9 ft of power wire he felt he did not need it. That is simply 20 minutes of my time wasted that caused me to leave work late, not have dinner with my family and make NO MONEY. In retail we deal with that all the time.

Yesterday we also had a local LEO that has been in several times to ask us questions on what he should do in his car, and every time we discuss items he goes straight home and buys either that item or similar on line for cost or in some cases below. Come here and eat at least 30-45 minutes of my time every time with the complete intention of buying it online? Come on get with it man, you want our knowledge and expertise but refuse to let me even sell you anything? Yesterday it was hey, i got this box coming from ebay, can you tell me what subs to go home and buy for it? Really? So maybe i was out of line when i asked him if he was a civil servant paid by business owners paying taxes, he said yes, then i asked how i can pay his salary if he refuse to actually spend money with me? Again maybe it is my fault for spending so much time with him EVERY TIME he comes in but, that is what we do. WE spend time to go through every thing with every one we can. It does get old when us even making $100 for spending hours with some one is too much money for "just making a call". In retail we deal with that all the time as well. It does take a lot out of you when people do this day in and day out, several times a day, But I do this because I enjoy helping peoples cars look and sound good.

That is not every client by any means but please when you come to try the local guys, treat them with the respect you deserve.

Again, every one is welcome to come check out my store any time and get to know us. This weekend we are hosting and open house from 9am-2 and then again from 8-11pm. During the morning session Step Harris will be hosting a sound off here. It is his event that we have nothing to do with other than supplying the location.

[jbondox]

Parish, cal the LEO out on it, just because he has a badge be a bit more creative.

Next time he comes in, ask him if he wants the advice to go buy it somewhere else or from you?

[CDetty]

I guess I'm lucky to have ONE good shop in my town. The guys up at Custom Vehicles really know what they're talking about and go out of their way to help. I was having problems with my system [i am still new at this] the owner came out and spent an hour and a half with me rewiring everything.

[safiend]

I guess I'm lucky to have ONE good shop in my town. The guys up at Custom Vehicles really know what they're talking about and go out of their way to help. I was having problems with my system [i am still new at this] the owner came out and spent an hour and a half with me rewiring everything.

That's awesome man, you don't get customer service like that anymore. I know I don't around here.

[donovanl12]

I went in one car audio shop where I live, South Florida, I've never stepped foot in one again. I'm not saying there are no decent shops in my area, but after that first experience, I gave up.

[navy579]

i had a shop seriously gave me estimate for box they said 800 1000 dollars that 3/4 all way around an 3/4 double on top for 2 fi 18 they where like we dont build boxes much an kept trying to say i need a wall they kept trying to sell me a wall

[Audioguy]

I have a lot to say but I'm going to keep it simple.

I own a stereo shop in California.

this is my problem, we have customers come in that I know very well they will never buy from me because I'm too Expensive, I'm force to deal with them even when I know what they are doing, they come in play with my product ask questions and a few weeks later they come back because they order the product on line and now something is not working right. I can't help them for Free. This is what I bring to the table,

Years of experience, Best products , Best possible price, and because of who we are we are going to be here for years to come. I'm part of a big chain of stores .

I'm a business owner I know price is very important, but let's brake down.

If I was in the tire business. Here is my deal.

4 tires for $75.00 each. Install, balance, free rotation for life . And I will pay to trow away your old tires. $300.00

OR

4 tires for $59.00 each. ( I have to be competive with the Internet )

$80.00 to install, balance

$20.00 to trow away your tires.

$40.00 every time you need your tires rotated

Total $336.00 I was force to be competive with the Internet.

Same citation when buying a car, price for your new car $1500.00 dealer A

Dealer B is going to sale you the car for $14,500 but the interest is a couple points higher( most of the time you will not find out till is too late.

My point is we can play the Game and trust me we are very good at it, but we choose to do honest business, all we want is to be able to make an honest living and take care of our families.

[HHR Ed]

The internet did not kill the audio stores

It's been the inability of the audio stores to evolve and adapt to use the internet that has killed them. As well as the few manufacturers that have devalued their product by selling in the hundreds of thousands to large webstores that consider themselves distributors but only distribute to the customers on their site by offering dealer pricing . Cough XXXXXXXXXX cough cough>

Sorry, but I must stop you right there now.. You are speaking on nothing you apparently know I guess and you very well should know this with your level of "expertise".

First of all, I edited the Online stores name out of your post. Your talking bad about their pricing, when you are in the wrong I would consider partner bashing, being a moderator on the site for so long you should know better.

Second, they have never really had cut throat pricing like you assume, most their prices are on par, or more than other Authorized online dealers. But if this company is in the wrong for selling online and having cheap prices, you should also be in the wrong with your new webstore..

Looks like your selling the Kenwood KDC -X896 for only$226 http://showtimecarau...nwood-kdc-x896/

while the site you bring up and slander is selling it for $259.99

Now if this site is so cheaply priced and whoring out product, Why is your site $34 cheaper????

You are guilty as it with your new store, just as much as the partner on this site is, if not more...

Now going on your theory of them selling at dealer cost... Thats not true, maybe old product such as last year models are sold very very cheap (as they are in most retail stores), but their prices are on par with MAP pricing (manufactures minimum advertised price for those who dont know), and often times some shops will sell to a local customer at this price too, but it depends on the shop and how the customer acts, or even if he is a returning customer, its not a always done thing, but it could be, without the shop hurting their authorized dealer contracts and what not while still turning a profit.

Anyways

Lets look at the new Pioneer AVIC-Z140BH headunit for 2012.

Crutchfields price is $1099.99 http://www.crutchfie...H.html?tp=20222

While this company you bring up that is again a vendor on this site is charging $1199.99 for it, and doesnt offer most of the free install parts that crutchfield offers.

Why is their price again higher than an authorized dealer when they whore out product like you claim.

Just proving your statements you said wrong again.

Actually I know a great deal and after the facts I just PMd you, you can PM me an apology or just post it here.

I actually do know a great deal and I know more than most out there, and what I said is completely true. The examples you brought up do not show that, but it is there but I will keep this general so you can dig around for yourself and find what I mean. Certain brands are more guilty than others. Head Units are a bad example, amps and woofers are the greatest example. Prices I set on headunits are still much above dealer and are based on other dealers pricing.

Sure head units they are selling at a fair price, just like some of the products they sell, and I never said that they sell all of their products at or below dealer price, just enough to cause trouble in the industry and enough to make what I said completely true.

I have talked with guys that own shops and some say that they buy products from them because its lower than the price they get from their distributor or from the manufacturer direct.

Their tactics are on some of these products, they do a weekly deal or something and drop it below dealer. But by the time someone complains, the sale is over.

Now there have been other brands that I was going to carry on my site but did not, because when reviewing MAP pricing and researching prices online, they had those brands lower than my dealer cost. When I confronted those manufacturers, they stated that everyone is supposed to adhere by their MAP policy and they will handle it. Well here we are 3 months later and the prices have not changed.

So I stand by my statement that it is both the large online dealer that sells too low AND the manufacturer that does nothing about it.

So my new tactic is to choose brands that large online dealers do not carry. There is still a problem in the industry though because of the devaluing of product types. Obviously if a customer sees one amp on their site at $199, that's what they expect to pay anywhere they go for that amp. But some now identify a 1200w amp in general to that price, so they go into a shop and see a higher end brand 1200w amp or whatever and if its $400-$500 they freak out. And most customers cannot be convinced that it is justified by its greater quality. Sure some can, and some will understand. But the great majority of people want the cheapest possible, and thats what they seem to be appealing to. And I dont wanna play that game, I want to educate people and appeal to the more true enthusiast.

The other part of that is that some manufacturers sell direct to almost anyone that calls them. Not everyone does that, but enough to make it known that the middle man can be eliminated.

There are ways to combat this both by small guys online and small guys in shops. Brand choice is one way. Keeping loyal and honorable is another way but just may take a while to get noticed.

What I really think should happen is the Best Buy approach. What I mean is territory lines get in the way. There is no reason that a local shop should not be able to also have a web store, just like Best Buy. This can extend the reach of that shop beyond their locality and give them a larger market. They can offer better deals if you come in and get that item installed, maybe 10% off the price of an amp when purchasing installation. Or something like that.

I myself do have a local install bay as well as my online shop. When I speak about honor, I mean that the brands I carry locally never go up on my site, I have seen this tactic done involving a manufacturer that even has a large banner on their website that says NO INTERNET SALES. Yet here is a shop less than an hour from them selling it online.

The world is filled with unscrupulous people so we cant expect everyone to behave, but the manufacturer has the power to stop selling to them. The hard thing is that when the money is rolling in, you cant just stop it.