Cost of power - then and now. (watts on the dollar)

[SoCaLBaMF]

i have to ask this. how in the FUCK did orion manage to build an amp that was stable down to like one hundredth of an ohm?

Same with harrison labs drag queen amp thats stable to .062 ohm but does like 18k lol

[WillistonAudioLabs]

I love this thread, lots of good discussions here. I did, however, want to clarify a few things;

1) As mentioned before, the Orion 2100 HCCA and XTR-2250 "Beast" were essentially the same amp with different rail voltages. People think these are "WAY" underrated and put out more at high input voltages, but unfortunately, this is just not true. These amps have regulated power supplies and based on my tests (and Car Audio & Electronics back in 1991), the big Orion's put out around 800w RMS into a resistive load at 1% THD. Back in the early 90's, 800W was a TON of power and very few amps could claim this much power (HiFonics Colossus, Rockford Power 1000 Mosfet, etc.). I wasn't able to fully test the RF 1000 mosfet, but it got to around 600x2 bridged at 4 ohms (it's a 4ch amp) before overloading my 200A strapped power supplies!

2) The Orion Concept 97.3 special edition has some crazy ratings to handle 0.00067 ohm or something like that, but is actually an XTR-2250 in a different heat sink. Yes, the 97.3, which was rated at 0.5w/ch at 4 ohms was actually a 250x2 @4ohms amp and those who tried crazy ohm loads smoked their amp back in the day. Orion basically created this amp to make a point. At the time, US Amps had the VLX series (VLX-25, 50, 400, etc) and amps like the VLX-25 was rated at 12.5w/ch at 4 ohms and would actually do over 1000w loaded down. Since Orion created the first "real" cheater amp, the 225 HCCA, they felt they could end the cheater wars also. It got them in trouble in 1997 and this 97.3 was banned from competition use. Back in the 80's and 90's, amp manufacturers would many times underrate their amps to give them an advantage in the competition classes (based on wattage ratings at 4 ohms).

3) As technology advances, prices drop. This is good and bad. I'm always impressed nowadays to see 1000w amps go for $200 or less. I paid $275 back in 1991 for a "45 watt" Rockford Punch 45HD. The big difference is this amp was made in the USA and my purchase price helped pay for the US labor. China labor is dirt cheap, not to mention most of the amps today are assembled using fully automated processes (or mostly automated).

4) Just as the previous generation and audio purists claim Class A amplifier technology sounds best, many of us prefer Class AB as opposed to Class D. There are drawbacks (efficiency, cost, total power, etc), but those who focus on SQ can get by with 1000w or less for subs. I'm not trying to start an argument about which type of amplifier is best, b/c I believe this is a personal preference and there is no "Best" design. It just depends on what you personally prefer, and if you need 5kw to power your subs, Class D is the only way to go.

Great thread, Steve and for those who like Old School amps here's a few pics you might enjoy...

[Quiet]

^That NT200 is the sexiest amp ever.

[WillistonAudioLabs]

^That NT200 is the sexiest amp ever.

And it was a 100x2 or 400x1 SQ amp. The NT200 in the pic here is not mine, but a friend's. He also has the Earthquake PA-2300 now...but I've picked up a few more "monster" old school amps in the meantime. I tested the NT200 and did a few teaser videos about it as well on my YT channel.

[Quiet]

Lol yeah your YouTube channel brought back some old memories... I grew up on Orion... and USAmps, especially living in Gainesville, it was the amp to have. I was surprised when I moved and no one had heard of them lol.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Quiet

[Watch the bass]

one of my friends from way back posted these pics on his facebook page and i thought it was a pretty interesting topic to bring up here. I see people complaining about "brand X" being too expensive and how they are such a rip off because "brand Y" makes a much cheaper amp.

Anyway, nowadays, some of these amps are in the 40 - 50 cents per watt range and people STILL bitching about pricing.

Well let me tell you how it USED TO BE. You saw an amp behind the glass case at your local shop and you WEREN'T getting it. Period. LOL.

the math on that ^^^ is about $8.50 - $8.75 per watt. HOLY SHIT you say....well we said that too

I personally run T2500.1bd cp amps that MSRP @ $1599.99 and they all have birthsheets over 3300 watts RMS. That is $.048 cents a watt. AT FULL MSRP. Nobody pays that. Lets say you find my amp for $999.99. A RACK for an amp sounds expensive, FUCK THAT you say.....well i say that is .30 cents a watt. In my day, and my buddy Chris too, we would probably cut our own mother's arm off and backhand our grandmother with it to get a deal like that. LOL :D

so anyway, i thought it was an interesting topic. I know we are talking RF here but now use your favorite brand and you might be talking 15-20 cents a watt. Who the hell bitches about that?

How often did whe have ,the theme bitching about these or that on SMD?

Isn´t it more that bitching is a thing in itself, out of the beeing of the oldes´t buissnes in the world?

Maby someone will create a thread about bitching/acting in itself.

But normaly bitching about "that" is a action of a bad suitor, a antagonist of bitchbuissnes, of a unnaware fellow runner of one of this sites.

It´s every time these 3 bitch relators and there past and there future and there now, like the buissnes is "the oldest of the world".

I asume for the SMD-forum, absolut the most people there bitching here are in group 3 from the sentences before and there respect

to te respect of unnaware fellow runningship.

Cheer´s.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Watch the bass

[WillistonAudioLabs]

Here's another consideration....

Value of the dollar. Back in 1991, when the Orion 2100 HCCA retailed for $1749, you could buy a brand new Honda Accord EX for how much? $16000? Comparable car today is around $25k.

Here's a website I use on occasion to show people today's value of an amp's cost back in the "old school"

MeasuringWorth.com

There are several factors in comparing 1991 value to today, but this site estimates $1749 in 1991 relates to between $2650-4400 today! Now do your dollar per watt costs!!

[wmrcs]

So much more comfortable with paying a lot for an amp now.