Pro Audio Vs Components, and Active Vs Passive

[CLPeller]

just go ahead and wall it since your losing your backseat anyway. My crescendo mids and pyramid tweets sound a ton better than my old aq pro audio and can get loud as hell on low power, Im only running 75w per mid

But if I wall it right off the start, then I have nothing to build up to. Lol. I'm slowly working my way up. Started with a single 15 in my 40 split, then 4 8's in my 60 split, now half wall, then full wall next. Hahah.

I can't say that you would or wouldn't like super tweeters because it's really a matter of what you're used to. But if I were you I'd visit a competition and sit in a car with supertweeters before I bought them. Also I wouldn't start with a 1:1 ratio between tweets and mids with an active system, because tweeters can do a lot of work on clean power... even low power.

I run Sundown Neo Pro 8s with Soundstream TWS.3N tweeters and my tweeter amp is barely working.

EDIT: Oh and now I understand the bass thing. I figured it had to be a 4 door.

I understand you're not saying I won't like them. And I realize this is all a matter of personal opinion. Basically what I'm used to, is crap ass stock mids/highs for the most part. Lol. So I'm sure anything will be an upgrade from that. I would love to go to a competition, but in my area that season is basically over. Winter hits fast up here in Northern Canada-land, so comps are all done until next summer, that I know of anyways. Also, the nearest city with a comp big enough to be worth going to would be at least a 5 hour drive :| I wish the stereo/car scene was bigger in my town.

As far as the ratio, you're saying more mids than tweets kind of thing? So 4 mids, 2 tweeters per door? Even if I were to run soft done tweeters?

[bbeljefe]

Well, let me ask you this... do you normally turn the treble up on a low powered system? If you do turn it up a lot then super tweets might not bother you. I don't like harsh treble and rarely have to boost it to suit my preferences. It also has to do with what you're used to. If you're accustomed to hearing bright, harsh treble then that may be okay for you. I spent a number of years in the hi end home audio market, so I've heard and had a lot of properly set up home theater and home two channel setups. Because of that experience, I have a benchmark by which to judge and when I hear a system that someone has too much or too harsh treble in... it makes me wince.

That said, if your main experience with sound systems has been beer joints with "white van" PA speakers being played at their max... harsh treble might well sound good to you. :-)

And yeah, I would start with a 2:1 ratio between mids and tweets. As an example, I'm running 300wpc to my Neos and 75wpc to the tweets with ~2K on on 15. I'm going to add one more pair of mids and another 15 and will up the power on the subs to about 4K. When I do that, I'm thinking that all I will need to do is up the gain on the tweeter amp, as right now it is literally turned down as low as it can be turned down. It will shock me if I wind up needing another set of tweeters.

But with that said... you also have to consider tweeter placement. High frequencies are very directional, so tweeters that are off axis to the listening position are a lot worse off than mid range speakers that are off axis. That's why (IMO) so many people end up with a lot of tweets in their systems... because they don't have them place correctly.

The best place for them is in the windshield posts with the right tweeter pointed at the left listener and vice versa. That will allow you to hear the treble clearly and without needing a lot of power. If I were you, I'd start with two pair and then see where to go from there.

[Kevin M]

A good rule of thumb for supertweeters is to cross them at ~twice the Fs. So if the Fs is 2500hz. You would want to cross them around 5k. Now there are exceptions to the rule. If you want to play them lower you can use steeper x-overs 24-48 db/octave or you can use lower power. Usually under rms power. I have seen home systems with horns and PA drivers with 6 db slopes but they were on less than 5 watts from a tube amplifier. My compression drivers are similar to supertweeters in construction; but they have a 24 db slope. I have also have eq'd the 1-4k range to remove the teeth out of them. I have been experimenting with different kinds of foam in the mouth of the horn to give them a more laid back sound. Why go through all the trouble you ask. Because of the efficiency of the drivers. They are so energetic that the energy from the driver gets to me before the reflections do. A typical metal or silk dome tweeter has an sensitivity of 88-92db 1W/1M. My horns are 111db 1W1M. Most supertweets are 105+. For a dome to give the same output and level of dynamics that the horns can they would need to be on 500+ watts!. I can think of maybe two tweeters that can take that kind of power. You don't need much power with supertweeters. 30-50 watts is more than enough. I like silk domes and non PA drivers but the dynamics and realism that I get from my current setup makes it hard to want to do anything else.

When you do use ST's use a proper x-over slope at a specific freq. and do some moderate eq'ing and they should be as rewarding as a typical dome setup...but they are not without their issues. lol Every speaker you pick for a system will have its compromises.

[CLPeller]

Bbeljefe and TheScottishBear. Thanks a ton for those last two posts. I've got a lot of questions/comments about them, but I'm away from home and on my phone so it's too hard to type out the length of reply I'll need :/ Soooo, it might be a couple days before I can get to a computer to respond to them/do a bit of research. In the meantime, feel free to add more info here. Lol.

[Kevin M]

http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/169872-pro-audio-vs-components/

Here is another thread similar to this one to look at with lots of info.

[White Lightning]

I have tried my heart out in tuning a pair of super tweeters to suit my ears ... Not happening ...

Just me I guess ... WAY too harsh for me

[ham4864]

An eq helps alo

[White Lightning]

I have tried my heart out in tuning a pair of super tweeters to suit my ears ... Not happening ...

Just me I guess ... WAY too harsh for me

An eq helps alo

I'm running a Kenwood DNX9980HD ... Plenty of EQ

Plus ... I have acess to a Audio Control RTA whenever I need it ...

[White Lightning]

... and been looking seriously at those Peavey twin 32 band equalizers to integrate into my truck ...

May be an improvement ... may not, but would be fun to experiment !!!