Good Concealed/First Pistol?

[Sutliff]

For $500, it is hard here, but H&K is where to invest if you are going to lay down cash at all.

Not a fan of Glock.

Any specific models?

HK 45 Compact - http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/hk45c_general.asp

or

HK P2000 SK (sub-compact) - http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/p2000sk_general.asp

[tayodell41]

For $500, it is hard here, but H&K is where to invest if you are going to lay down cash at all.

Not a fan of Glock.

Any specific models?

HK 45 Compact - http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/hk45c_general.asp

or

HK P2000 SK (sub-compact) - http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/p2000sk_general.asp

What are the prices of those?

[tayodell41]

Definitely need to spend some time on the range seeing what fits your hands and what you're comfortable with. I'm not a Glock fan (great guns, but) cause I prefer .45 ACP, and those glocks chambered in that round have fairly large grips that don't work well with short and stubby fingers. I got a Springfield XD45, and it has much thinner grips and fits my hand perfectly. That's just one example.

The other thing I pay attention to is the angle of the grip from barrel centerline. I like a handgun that I can naturally shoot on target at reasonable ranges without sighting (just like if you had to get the drop on someone quickly, taking time to develop a good sight picture through the sights is going to get you shot.) Something about how Glocks are configured just naturally makes me want to shoot high. The XD, and my Kimber 1911 work with my hands and body. You have to shoot several different handguns till you find the one that just clicks for you.

That said, get a known name brand. You want something that's going to be dead reliable every time, and require little maintenance. Also, plan to go to the range and burn through at least 150 rounds when you first get the gun. Get used to the recoil, the noise, your natural aiming point, ect. Dry fire (without any rounds) and practice loading and unloading prior to going to the range so that you can safely and efficiently take orders from range control and be safe around other gun owners.

If your preference is a revolver, get one chambered in .357 magnum which will give you the ability to shoot .38 special or .357 magnum if you're comfortable with the extra recoil. For automatics, a Springfield XD subcompact is my personal pick though there are plenty of others that are nice too. 9mm is going to wind up the cheaper ammo most of the time, .45ACP 230 grain JHP is my preference for total knock down ability.

How do you like the Springfield? I have also looked into those and would love one if I could get a good price.

[Facekicker]

I -love- my Springfields. I have an XD9 and a 1911 EMP and both have me swearing by Springfield.

But, I've had a lot of other good handguns. I'm a fan of the cheaper S&Ws for starters, the M&Ps are very good guns if you want to spend a little more.

Anyway, here's 3 suggestions from me for a first gun, increasing in price. These will ship free to a local dealer btw. The Taurus and XD are probably easier to conceal.

http://www.impactguns.com/sw-sd9ve-9mm-blkss-16r-223900-022188149326.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/taurus-millemium-pro-9mm-blue-w12-rd-mags-111bp12-725327600398.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/springfield-xd-9mm-3-inch-black-16rd-mag-and-10rd-mag-xd9801hcsp06-706397866006.aspx

Also depending on how often you'll actually concealed carry, you might want to consider 4" or longer instead of 3" but your post said for concealment.

This is what I carry:

http://www.impactguns.com/springfield-emp-9mm-3in-g10-handels-pi9210lp-706397872557.aspx

[Ryan Christensen]

I carry personally and highly recommend a glock 27 in .40cal. Very small yet packs one hell of a punch. you can find gen 3 for under 500 bucks too

[LT.Smoke]

If you're interested in a 1911 you can get a Tactical Rock Island for right at 450-500 ... Shoot like a dream right out of the box... I am also a fan of Springfield xd, Glock and Smith and Wesson M&P's ... Any of these will do well...

Make sure you train as much as you can I would suggest taking some classes that the instructor times you or does something to elevate your adrenaline levels

I have taken a handful of training classes due to my job so if you'd like some suggestions feel free to pm me

[tayodell41]

I -love- my Springfields. I have an XD9 and a 1911 EMP and both have me swearing by Springfield.

But, I've had a lot of other good handguns. I'm a fan of the cheaper S&Ws for starters, the M&Ps are very good guns if you want to spend a little more.

Anyway, here's 3 suggestions from me for a first gun, increasing in price. These will ship free to a local dealer btw. The Taurus and XD are probably easier to conceal.

http://www.impactguns.com/sw-sd9ve-9mm-blkss-16r-223900-022188149326.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/taurus-millemium-pro-9mm-blue-w12-rd-mags-111bp12-725327600398.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/springfield-xd-9mm-3-inch-black-16rd-mag-and-10rd-mag-xd9801hcsp06-706397866006.aspx

Also depending on how often you'll actually concealed carry, you might want to consider 4" or longer instead of 3" but your post said for concealment.

This is what I carry:

http://www.impactguns.com/springfield-emp-9mm-3in-g10-handels-pi9210lp-706397872557.aspx

Yeah I'm a bigger guy so I was thinking a bigger gun. Not big weight wise but I have bigger than average hands haha.

[philrab]

Definitely need to spend some time on the range seeing what fits your hands and what you're comfortable with. I'm not a Glock fan (great guns, but) cause I prefer .45 ACP, and those glocks chambered in that round have fairly large grips that don't work well with short and stubby fingers. I got a Springfield XD45, and it has much thinner grips and fits my hand perfectly. That's just one example.

The other thing I pay attention to is the angle of the grip from barrel centerline. I like a handgun that I can naturally shoot on target at reasonable ranges without sighting (just like if you had to get the drop on someone quickly, taking time to develop a good sight picture through the sights is going to get you shot.) Something about how Glocks are configured just naturally makes me want to shoot high. The XD, and my Kimber 1911 work with my hands and body. You have to shoot several different handguns till you find the one that just clicks for you.

That said, get a known name brand. You want something that's going to be dead reliable every time, and require little maintenance. Also, plan to go to the range and burn through at least 150 rounds when you first get the gun. Get used to the recoil, the noise, your natural aiming point, ect. Dry fire (without any rounds) and practice loading and unloading prior to going to the range so that you can safely and efficiently take orders from range control and be safe around other gun owners.

If your preference is a revolver, get one chambered in .357 magnum which will give you the ability to shoot .38 special or .357 magnum if you're comfortable with the extra recoil. For automatics, a Springfield XD subcompact is my personal pick though there are plenty of others that are nice too. 9mm is going to wind up the cheaper ammo most of the time, .45ACP 230 grain JHP is my preference for total knock down ability.

How do you like the Springfield? I have also looked into those and would love one if I could get a good price.

My Springfield XD is a great gun. My ONLY criticism of if almost isn't fair (based on price range, I paid $500-$600 brand new when they first came out) I really have issues with the overtravel and creep of the trigger. That's not to say it's bad, cause for a production, non-custom gun, it's good, I'm just a picky bastard. For a daily throwaround carry gun, I'd say get a 4" 45ACP. 13 rounds in the mag, I don't keep mine with one in the pipe due to lack of selectable safety (the newer models have an optional safety, older ones only have the beavertail and trigger safety.)

I will also throw in, my favorite range gun is my Kimber (1911) TLE RL2. Awesome gun, great feel in the hand, lots of weight in the barrel keeps the nose down when shooting, awesome trigger right out of the box. If I have to have a gun in my hand to check my property late in the evening, this is the one I take. I have Crimson Trace lasergrips on it, a Surefire X200 rail light, and extended magazines for a little more ammo.

My issues rec'ing a 1911 of any sort to carry is they are difficult to conceal for smaller people (5" barrel, big frame) but they are single stacked magazines and fairly thin in cross seciton so they flatten against the body of a medium/large frame person very well (I'm 5'11, 230 lbs, and that gun disapears against me, my 5'9 160lb brother couldn't hide it at all.) They have single stacked mags, so you're giving up ammo capacity to a newer gun with double stacked mags. About your limit without a long mag that hangs out of the grip is 8 rounds. That being said, the quality ones from Colt/Springfield/Kimber are damned durable, damned reliable, and all are straight shooting guns. the .45 ACP in a heavy jacketed hollow point has a well deserved reputation for dropping people in a single shot, and the recoil isn't beyond what's controllable for an average person with a little training and familiarity. Used 1911's also abound, and as long as they haven't been horribly abused it's hard to go wrong with one.

[LT.Smoke]

Nothing under .380 for sure, but 9mm and up preferred.

As I mentioned before for a caliber rec, revolvers IMHO .357 magnum is a no brainer. Shoot the .38 specials if that's all you can handle, but .357 has some serious knockdown ability if you can comfortably control the recoil.

For semi-autos, .380 isn't going to hurt anything bigger than a dog. I've heard all the arguments about how a .22 is lethal in the right hands, but the average person isn't the right hands. I grew up around firearms, and got PLENTY of experience with small arms in the military. I always recommend to someone they carry and shoot the heaviest hitting ammo they can comfortably control. For me, in a semi auto, that's heavy hollowpoint .45 ACP all day.

What you want in a self defense handgun is the ability to knock your target on his/her butt in a single shot. If you have to shoot, and the target is running at you, and that round goes straight through, even if it's a kill shot adrenaline and momentum are going to guarantee your assailant is going to get a piece of you. A heavy, hard hitting, hollow point is going to tend to discharge it's energy into the target and knock them down at a safe standoff range. The goal is to end the thread before they get close enough to you to injur you.

This isn't some gun neophyte or forum fanboy telling you this, this is a 31 year old guy that's spent twenty years of his life shooting on the range and in combat. If we're talking about an average self defense situation, limited range, against an armed or unarmed assailant, your goals are few and simple.

A. You want a weapon you are comfortable shooting. This involves getting the right gun, and spending lots of QT at the range getting to where your motions are automatic. Muscle memory will save your life if you ever had to rely on it. A gun in unfamiliar hands takes too long to put into action.

B. You want to do maximum damage to your opponent with each shot. If you can handle the recoil of a .44 magnum or a .45 ACP, carry them. If you can't, get the hardest hitting round you can reliably control. There is no such thing as overkill in a life or death gunfight, it's simple survive or notify your next of kin.

C. Having satisfied the first two principles, bare in mind that what we refer to as "situational awareness" will save your life more often than any firearm. Keep your eyes and ears open, avoid parking in or walking in dark areas, watch for people stalking you in parking lots. If you recognize a bad situation before you find yourself in one, you can avoid having to ever draw your weapon.

I'm 31, and with the exception of my time in the military I've only ever had to draw down on one person in my life. He was an angry neighbor, obviously loaded on something, and tried to force his way through my front door. Unfortunately for him, I answered the door with a 1911 sitting on the dining room table well within my reach and out of his view. When he stepped forward into the doorway, I grabbed the gun, safety off, and took one step back into the Weaver stance making sure I was out of his grasp. I calmly told him to step back out of my home, or I was going to take no pleasure in calling the coroner, cause "at this range, you don't have a chance in Hell of living through this". He stepped back, I slammed the door in his face, and called the apartment manager. I recognized that this guy was beating on my door late at night, obviously irritated about something and irrational, and did my due diligence by being prepared. Had I not been armed, I probably could have subdued him with my bare hands if necessarily, but no reason to take that chance.

I have to respectfully disagree with the .380 statement due to advances in ammo and what not the .380 is a decent choice for a TINY CCW . I don't personally own by my own choice but I am not against owning one I just don't have the $$ lol

[tayodell41]

Definitely need to spend some time on the range seeing what fits your hands and what you're comfortable with. I'm not a Glock fan (great guns, but) cause I prefer .45 ACP, and those glocks chambered in that round have fairly large grips that don't work well with short and stubby fingers. I got a Springfield XD45, and it has much thinner grips and fits my hand perfectly. That's just one example.

The other thing I pay attention to is the angle of the grip from barrel centerline. I like a handgun that I can naturally shoot on target at reasonable ranges without sighting (just like if you had to get the drop on someone quickly, taking time to develop a good sight picture through the sights is going to get you shot.) Something about how Glocks are configured just naturally makes me want to shoot high. The XD, and my Kimber 1911 work with my hands and body. You have to shoot several different handguns till you find the one that just clicks for you.

That said, get a known name brand. You want something that's going to be dead reliable every time, and require little maintenance. Also, plan to go to the range and burn through at least 150 rounds when you first get the gun. Get used to the recoil, the noise, your natural aiming point, ect. Dry fire (without any rounds) and practice loading and unloading prior to going to the range so that you can safely and efficiently take orders from range control and be safe around other gun owners.

If your preference is a revolver, get one chambered in .357 magnum which will give you the ability to shoot .38 special or .357 magnum if you're comfortable with the extra recoil. For automatics, a Springfield XD subcompact is my personal pick though there are plenty of others that are nice too. 9mm is going to wind up the cheaper ammo most of the time, .45ACP 230 grain JHP is my preference for total knock down ability.

How do you like the Springfield? I have also looked into those and would love one if I could get a good price.

My Springfield XD is a great gun. My ONLY criticism of if almost isn't fair (based on price range, I paid $500-$600 brand new when they first came out) I really have issues with the overtravel and creep of the trigger. That's not to say it's bad, cause for a production, non-custom gun, it's good, I'm just a picky bastard. For a daily throwaround carry gun, I'd say get a 4" 45ACP. 13 rounds in the mag, I don't keep mine with one in the pipe due to lack of selectable safety (the newer models have an optional safety, older ones only have the beavertail and trigger safety.)

I will also throw in, my favorite range gun is my Kimber (1911) TLE RL2. Awesome gun, great feel in the hand, lots of weight in the barrel keeps the nose down when shooting, awesome trigger right out of the box. If I have to have a gun in my hand to check my property late in the evening, this is the one I take. I have Crimson Trace lasergrips on it, a Surefire X200 rail light, and extended magazines for a little more ammo.

My issues rec'ing a 1911 of any sort to carry is they are difficult to conceal for smaller people (5" barrel, big frame) but they are single stacked magazines and fairly thin in cross seciton so they flatten against the body of a medium/large frame person very well (I'm 5'11, 230 lbs, and that gun disapears against me, my 5'9 160lb brother couldn't hide it at all.) They have single stacked mags, so you're giving up ammo capacity to a newer gun with double stacked mags. About your limit without a long mag that hangs out of the grip is 8 rounds. That being said, the quality ones from Colt/Springfield/Kimber are damned durable, damned reliable, and all are straight shooting guns. the .45 ACP in a heavy jacketed hollow point has a well deserved reputation for dropping people in a single shot, and the recoil isn't beyond what's controllable for an average person with a little training and familiarity. Used 1911's also abound, and as long as they haven't been horribly abused it's hard to go wrong with one.

I'm 6'2" and about 200 lbs. I'll have to check out the 1911s