Arthur79 Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 So in 2020 I spent the bulk of my time kitting out the shop with tools that have been on my wish list for as long as I can remember. The star of the show is an Avid 48x96 CNC router big enough to cut/carve a full sheet of material (as the 48x96 implies) This build is the first custom build I did for a customer using the new CNC. I've gotten a lot better with the CNC since this build, but I've still got a long way to go to take full advantage of the tool. The customer had/has 4 Kicker Q-Class L7 12" square subs and 2 KXA1600.1 sub amps. He wanted a box built with max output and little to no port chuffing/noise since it was going/went in a Yukon XL. I don't remember exact box volume/port details as I screwed up and re-installed the computer I had used to to design/validate the box and lost the WinISD and CAD files. I should still have the project files and tool paths I used on the CNC, but I'm too lazy to go find them and do the math. I remember plugging in Kicker's recommended box values and tweaking from there. Since the KXA1600.1s can't be strapped, the enclosure is actually 2 isolated ported chambers (essentially mirrored). I had quite a few sheets of 5/8" MDF so I used what I had. All the walls of the enclosure are at least 2 laminated sheets of 5/8 for a thickness of a little under 1 1/4 and some parts (like the wall that separate's the 2 chambers) are 3 ply thick 5/8 sheets laminated together. The whole setup was ridiculously heavy. So much so that I was starting to have trouble moving and articulating it as it was coming together/working through the finish work. We had to use a pair of 2x4 skids and slide it down them into the back of the Yukon as there was no way 2 people could pick it up and set it in safely. The next 2 posts in the topic will be the box build and the amp rack build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted July 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Box build Here are some cad renders that served as a starting point: The CAD renders were part of a quote/proposal. Once the customer had given the build a green light and paid the deposit I got to work. I was able to convince him that going with 2 ported chambers rather than each sub having it's own chamber/port wouldn't loose any output or fidelity making the build a lot more straight forward. Here is a sketch I texted him while we were finalizing the design: Here are some shots of some of the first pieces being cut on the CNC: Here is the trim ring that went on the top of the enclosure: And the accent piece for the top of the box: Here is a shot of the enclosure coming together with threaded inserts locked in place using CA glue: Here is a shot of the back of the enclosure with recesses and mounting holes for the heavy rubber feet I used to isolate the amp rack from the enclosure along with the holes and markings for the speaker lead connection: Here is a shot of mounting the front with the big Kicker logo. I was still dialing in the CNC's calibrations and so this side of the box was cut a little over-sized so I could use a flush trim bit to dial it in: Here are a few more shots of the front wall of the enclosure. Originally I was rattle canning the logo, but for some reason that I'm still not sure what was, along about the 3rd coat (same can as the previous coat even) it wrinkled horribly so I ended up sanding it again and flooded it with acrylic paint using a torch to pop bubbles (similar to using epoxy). It ended up taking DAYS to fully dry/cure enough that I wasn't worried it would get dented/nicked from handling: Here are a couple of shots with the base enclosure assembled. The acrylic paint flood of the big kicker logo cured out with a slight textured look, but IMO it looked pretty good that way and it's something I would consider doing again in the future (it just takes a lot of time): In this shot, you can see some of the internal bracing... Finally on to the finish work proper: I ended up having to sand and re-shoot the top. I masked too far over and you could see bare MDF peeking out around the subs... We went with a roll-on DuraTex finish. It has a similar finish and texture as bed liner but it's less expensive and we were budget constrained on this project. The good news is that it was a lot easier to carefully roll on the finish making masking a lot easier than when you shoot something like Raptor liner: A bit of an idea of the size... Here are a couple of shots of the accent piece that went on the center of the top baffle: I went with about 3ish (a little more in some places) coats of the DuraTex and overall I think the texture and finish came out well and the customer was pleased with the final result. In the next post, I'll run through the amp rack build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted July 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Amp rack build: The amp rack bolts onto the back of the sub enclosure. We didn't have a lot of options for a more involved amp rack (again due to budget constraint) so I did my best to decouple the rack from the enclosure using pretty big/thick rubber feet. The feet I used are marketed for PA speaker feet. Here are the initial CAD renderings of the amplifier rack: Here are some shots of mocking up the rack and playing around with amplifier placement and wiring routing. The window gets an acrylic window, but it didn't go in until after the whole thing was installed in the truck to minimize chances of scratching it: Here you can see some recesses I cut into the back of the amp rack for some red LEDs to cast a glow back between the rack and the enclosure. You can also see the registration points for the rubber isolation stand-offs and two of the fan ports: Here is starting to wire up the rack after the fans are mounted with some wire mesh fan grates/grills. The rack got a total of 4 BeQuiet 80mm fans. 2 Fans draw air into the amp rack on the low side, the other two exhaust air out at the high side of the box. Thinking being that heat rises. He's been rolling with the setup for a while now and hasn't had an issue with thermal protect as of yet. I really like the BeQuiet fans, as the name implies they are almost silent, but still manage to move a reasonable amount of air for their size/noise output. You can also see that I had to widen the mounting holes in the rack to give some adjustability. That goes back to the fact that I was still dialing in/fine tuning the tolerances on the CNC: Here are a few shots of the rack as it's near completion: You can see the red LED strips here: The removable face of the rack has white LEDs to illuminate the rack as well, but I can't find a picture of it with the LEDs installed off the rack: Here are some shots of the amplifier rack mounted on the enclosure: So the amp rack uses a 3-pin quick disconnect pigtail where B+, ground and the remote turn-on lead come in. From there it has a relay that provides more current to run the fans, LEDs and turn-on leads for the amplifiers. There are 2 toggle switches in the top of the rack. One of them switches a small bus bar where the bass amp turn on leads are wired, that way he can flip a switch to turn off the amps. The other toggles the LED lights. I left enough room between the 2 bass amps for a mids & highs amp he wants to install later. That's right, he has 4 Q-Class L7 12" subs on 3200 watts RMS and the front stage is run off deck power. This guy is a true bass-head. Next post will be the only 2 shots I got on install day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted July 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Install day: Here are the only 2 shots I got on install day: You can kind of get a better picture of the rack wiring in this shot: The truck has 2 led-acid batteries under the hood but he is still rocking the stock alternator. We tuned everything with the SMD CC-1 and DD-1. There is a double-run of 0 gauge CCA power wire (1 run for each amp). I don't like CCA and strongly suggested he go back and run OFC - but again - budget constraints. During tuning and test bumping, his voltage was dipping below 12 volts (which was causing the amps to go into protect) I have been urging him to go with at least 1 HO alternator (or maybe even 2) but he has been focusing all his mad money on mechanical / engine upgrades. Every time we talk I remind him that he's leaving power and output on the table by not upgrading his alt, we'll see if he pulls the trigger on it. He hasn't upgraded to OFC runs yet, I think he's planning to do that before he does an alternator. Another note worth mentioning. The bass knob for those KXA amplifiers are wireless and you can pair multiple amps to a single knob. Several months after the install, the system output dropped dramatically and he said it sounded like it was out of phase and observed that two of the subs weren't moving anywhere near as much as the other two. He brought it by the shop for a troubleshooting session and (luckily) we noticed that the knob had lost it's pairing with one of the amplifiers. We re-paired the remote to both amps and re-tuned with the DD-1 for good measure and he was back to where we started on install day. Overall I was pretty happy how this one came out and the customer was ecstatic with the end result. Let me know what you guys think and what you would have done differently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted July 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Also - I have some video of the build I was sharing with the customer along the way. If you guys are interested I can edit it a bit and upload it here. I think some of the video covers the wiring of the amp rack better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted July 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 One more question for the forum (and then I will quit spamming my own thread) I kind of feel like I ended up loosing my a$$ on this project, but before I share what I charged, I'm curious what you guys think a build like this should be worth. ie - what price would you feel comfortable paying for the end result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafaseles Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Arthur79 said: One more question for the forum (and then I will quit spamming my own thread) I kind of feel like I ended up loosing my a$$ on this project, but before I share what I charged, I'm curious what you guys think a build like this should be worth. ie - what price would you feel comfortable paying for the end result? First off, that's a really nice box! Not a fan of kicker too much, but you knocked the design and look out of the park! Good job. Wish I had access to a machine lol. Make my install a lot easier lol. But no, looks amazing. Everything you've posted has been pretty damn cool! Second, no offense to the owner, but I can't stand it when people say they want a crap ton of slap, buy expensive products (which, if he would have gone with a different brand for 4 1000 watt subs, he'd have enough money left over for OFC and probably an alternator) and then, when you tell them what the cost is to actually run that equipment safely and properly, they don't have the money. It's not in the budget. Oh it'll be fine. Still slaps. Sorry, but that just rubs me the wrong way. Third, I live in California, more specifically the San Francisco Bay area, where everything is a retarded level of expensive, for that enclosure and install (not even counting the equipment) I'd be spending somewhere around $6,000 to $7,500 from a mediocre shop, more than that from a legit installer with a great reputation. Again though man, if you can make kicker subs look cool, you did something short of a miracle. Good job! 2011 Chevy Silverado under construction My build log here. Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted July 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dafaseles said: First off, that's a really nice box! Not a fan of kicker too much, but you knocked the design and look out of the park! Good job. Wish I had access to a machine lol. Make my install a lot easier lol. But no, looks amazing. Everything you've posted has been pretty damn cool! Second, no offense to the owner, but I can't stand it when people say they want a crap ton of slap, buy expensive products (which, if he would have gone with a different brand for 4 1000 watt subs, he'd have enough money left over for OFC and probably an alternator) and then, when you tell them what the cost is to actually run that equipment safely and properly, they don't have the money. It's not in the budget. Oh it'll be fine. Still slaps. Sorry, but that just rubs me the wrong way. Third, I live in California, more specifically the San Francisco Bay area, where everything is a retarded level of expensive, for that enclosure and install (not even counting the equipment) I'd be spending somewhere around $6,000 to $7,500 from a mediocre shop, more than that from a legit installer with a great reputation. Again though man, if you can make kicker subs look cool, you did something short of a miracle. Good job! Thanks Defaseles! I 100% agree with you on that mentality of wanting the slap but ignoring or hand waving away the fundamentals like power wire, high end batteries and alternators. I'm with you on Kicker as well. I've not been a kicker fan since the mid 90s. I will say that those Q Class sounded better than I expected, but they wouldn't have been my first choice. The amps were ok, but no strapping option and the loss of pairing with the wireless bass knob give me pause. Brands like Kicker and Rockford spend lots of money buying brand recognition in the mainstream market. That's not to say they don't have some quality products, but I shudder a little every time I see a 10" Kicker sub on the shelf at a Wal Mart. That said, I understand they are trying to capture as wide a segment of the market as they can and I guess there is a lot of money to be made selling a sub $100 dollar woofer at Wal Marts. Personally, I prefer brands that nobody outside of enthusiast circles have heard of and am especially attracted to boutique manufacturers and start sporting visible excitement for brands that are hand crafted here in the US (or even other countries, the DD AW65s I so thoroughly love were hand built in a small village in Germany but alas, DD discontinued them). As for that price point in the Bay area, I knew prices were pretty outlandish out there (I've turned down a few day-job offers out there over the years due to cost of living) but that is a crazy lot of money! I'll wait to see if anybody else on the forum wants to kick in what they think a fair price for the build would be where they live, but suffice to say it was a fraction of that. I ended up doing the install on the good-ol-boy system, I wanted to make sure it went in well and got tuned properly to give it the best chance of not clipping the woofers to death, but that's on me. For whatever reason, I have a hard time charging people for things like that, something I need to get better about LoL. As for the CNC, I love it man. I'm trying to work my way into working for myself so I can use it every day but that's an entirely different topic for (hopefully) another day. Do you have access to a makerspace out there in SF? I know a lot of them (makerspaces) have CNC routers and lasers, might be a way to get access to the equipment without the cost and overhead of having the machine and a place to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafaseles Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 My cousin at his work, they have a table saw. That's a close as I'll get lol. I don't even know what a markerspace is to be totally honest. My friends make fun of me because basically I dig holes in the street for a living. They say if it involves anything other than a shovel or hammer, Mike has no idea what he's doing 🤣 assholes lol. The bay area is dumb expensive. Put it on perspective..... that JL/ Memphis install in almost done ripping out of my truck, with the custom box to look like a back seat, amp rack, this, that and the other thing, and all the equipment.... I was in almost $18,000. Yes, the comma is in the right place. That's from a mediocre shop. It's crazy! 2011 Chevy Silverado under construction My build log here. Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted July 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dafaseles said: My cousin at his work, they have a table saw. That's a close as I'll get lol. I don't even know what a markerspace is to be totally honest. My friends make fun of me because basically I dig holes in the street for a living. They say if it involves anything other than a shovel or hammer, Mike has no idea what he's doing 🤣 assholes lol. The bay area is dumb expensive. Put it on perspective..... that JL/ Memphis install in almost done ripping out of my truck, with the custom box to look like a back seat, amp rack, this, that and the other thing, and all the equipment.... I was in almost $18,000. Yes, the comma is in the right place. That's from a mediocre shop. It's crazy! Holy $h!t, you're making me wonder what it would take to pack up and relocate out there to open a shop! I know it's bound to take more than I'm willing to try and invest, and I can't imagine shops are stacking up 18k builds like cord wood, but shit man, that's insane to me! Maker Spaces are pretty cool, they are basically shops kitted out with all the tools/toys that you can join for a monthly fee. The last time I looked into one, the membership fees were pretty reasonable. I figure they are kind of like gyms, a lot of people sign up for a subscription, but only a fraction of people actually show up very often to log time on the machines. They usually have training classes on the different equipment which is pretty cool. I have no doubt you would be able to pick it up, it's just a matter of time - the one thing we all have just lying around right 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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