The A Team

Thanks man. Have not been to much of a enets jockey for a while just making an apperance than I will fade back into the shadows lol

Alot very durable subs. These are m1 XLs but you get the idea.

I have had good luck with the DC subs in my last few attempts to get loud. Jimbo built for music had 8 xl 15s, burp 164.7 dB, bassrace 162 dB. Vanessa SS 1-2 build had 2 prototype NEO 18s 166.4 dB. Riprock Trooper testing the first prototype NEO 18 178.3 dB. Would have been louder but limit of the paper cone on a single sub.

I guess I cold help on this.... I have the first two prototypes in my van currently 4th order. If you didnt see it was doing 166.2 after only 2 months of working on it. I plan on trying 6th order over winter to see how that works as well. But they work well in the 4th order no question. Say rated power handling? 2500 rms daily driving, even though they will hold much more. I originally designed these for Jimbo to allow me to use more of the power I had available and to push my Bassrace scores a little higher. They are no SQ sub by any means, but were designed to play music loud and for a long time!

Should add me to the list The A Team Canada wide Rep talk about area!!! lol

I have some big scores coming.

I will see you all there.

If they are d1 coils for sure lv4. I have had stock lv3 12s on a Stetsom 4k2d and a customer with lv3 12s on a DC 3000.1 both setups slammed!

How is the sub wired? Parallel or series parallel?

Man i need you to tell me just how much these can take for my next build...... Shhhh Keep up the good work, and i will see you in 2 months.

I had actually made mention of this in my post from last night that i closed accidentally. Yes that is the purpose of a port to convert rear waves 180 degrees into usable front wave. This is obviously more efficient. Now look at how the output goes from rear to front wave forms. There is always cancellation occurring inside confined spaces. also look at the output areas, subs cone area vs port area. Again look at restrictions and the path a rear wave whether it comes off the front of the sub or the back of the sub (if inverted) has to go through to become a output. Again you will find you get the majority of your output from the subs wave outside the enclosure. You will however have greater SPL inside the enclosure because its pressurizing a smaller loaded area, but that means if the SPL is trapped inside the box it is not getting outside, and you are not inside the box. So to run over this again you get the most output from outside the enclosure (sub normal or inverted) and less from the port or rear wave output. So now outside of the enclosure put the test i stated to go use and think about this. Do you want your more efficient outputting wave trapped inside the enclosure or do you want it outside where it is combined with the more efficient output of the enclosure? Thats right why not pair up the two best outputs for more gain? Variables or not you want to optimize every aspect of the system, so why bottle neck here? I have nothing against inverted, but this is all stuff i know from years...... and years of playing with this stuff. And like i said most of this here is basic look at it and see the differences. Here is a good visual... Look at this pic, you put this motor in front of your main output and you can see how it would affect it in a HUGE way. If you have your glasses on and look real hard you can see there is something in the way on the back end of this sub, and all subs.

Yea I'd like to see the reasoning behind his statement. I have inverted subs and never heard an audible difference from doing so. Plus I can own a top fuel funny car, but not understand why it makes 8000 HP. I like that analogy about the funny car. Raises a great point... Whether i understand why it makes so much power i still have the common sense not to drive the car in reverse down the track the quickest! And I always put my parachute on the front or the rear of the vehicle? lol I forget.... But then again maybe i am not a total idiot either and understand the working of an internal combustion engine and i just have a real bad sense of direction? Good point! And I hope you took no offense to my post, meant no disrespect at all I didn't understand the difference till you explained it a few posts ago. It was such an easy explanation I'm surprised more people don't realize the difference! Thanks for clearing it up without all the B.S.... No not at all, i just had to make a funny post to lighten the mood. I hope you understand that i am a accomplished competitor who understands this stuff quite well and has mad skills building and designing both enclosures and woofers! I am a one man band, but i have been best of friends with Team Riprock for a very long time. I shouldnt have to tell anyone that these guys are probably the smartest SPL competitors in the world!!! Everything i know i have picked up from them.

You got it. Easy to understand yes?

Purfectinsanity = a broken record.... And you are already 1 post past your "last post." Quit now if you refuse to understand something so simple. Go back to reading instead of posting like you stated you enjoy doing.

Yea I'd like to see the reasoning behind his statement. I have inverted subs and never heard an audible difference from doing so. Plus I can own a top fuel funny car, but not understand why it makes 8000 HP. I like that analogy about the funny car. Raises a great point... Whether i understand why it makes so much power i still have the common sense not to drive the car in reverse down the track the quickest! And I always put my parachute on the front or the rear of the vehicle? lol I forget.... But then again maybe i am not a total idiot either and understand the working of an internal combustion engine and i just have a real bad sense of direction?

If that is the case what good are your posts? And how is it that what i have said is bs? Prove me wrong first, not just saying it is to dependent on variables, but actually proving me wrong. And saying it cant be tested, thats down right lazy! Everything can be tested. You seem to be insistent that i am filling people full of bs, yet you are self admittingly saying you have no idea...... As i have said it is easy to understand how my point of view = louder if you just take the time to think about it. Dont get worked up over a internet argument and think about it for a second. I never said you was wrong or YOU was filling people with bullshit. Maybe you misread or misunderstood. I didn't say it couldn't be tested, but I said its not as simple as switch out. To many variables to gwt accrute results. And I admit, in theory, there shouldn't be any difference. If everything is the same. Please reread my posts if your doubting what I said. Maybe this will clear things up. I only meant for you to give a explanation on your answer. Not that you was wrong. Was that to much to ask for? Man i am pretty pissed off. I just wrote out a huge novel explaining everything to you and then i closed the window before adding the reply. Ohhhh i am pissed. For tonight i will leave you with some quick points as i am not typing all that again. How do you think a sub is no different front to back? We are talking about front wave vs rear wave vs output. Look at the back of a sub, what do you see? look at the front what do you see? Notice any obstruction? Look at the loudest Extreme and SS vehicles. You will notice none of them invert subs. If it was louder do you not think they would have done it yet? Do you think i would have done it yet? Now here is your test. I said it has to be so simple, take out the variables, the car the enclosure you are testing the sub alone. Install the sub on a upright open baffle in the middle of a 4x8 table or centered in a open area. Place 2 meters one in front one behind the sub at 2 feet away. Burp that sub and record which end is louder. Do it as many times as you wish. I will put my money on the front wave every time! Test this out, i have.

in your experience is it always louder, or is that just louder on the TL? For someone (like me) who has zero intentions of competing does it make a difference to the ear-o-meter? Always louder every time. If it is louder on the meter it will be louder on the ear, because everything is the same. Its not like the difference between different frequencies where some sound louder because of the resonance but are not building the same pressures on the meter.

If that is the case what good are your posts? And how is it that what i have said is bs? Prove me wrong first, not just saying it is to dependent on variables, but actually proving me wrong. And saying it cant be tested, thats down right lazy! Everything can be tested. You seem to be insistent that i am filling people full of bs, yet you are self admittingly saying you have no idea...... As i have said it is easy to understand how my point of view = louder if you just take the time to think about it. Dont get worked up over a internet argument and think about it for a second.

Perfectlyinsane are you saying there is no difference? I am still trying to figure out your opinion on this.

And testing this is simple! You need to un-complicate things.

no it won't. there is no difference between mounting a sub inverted vs. mounting it regular (assuming identical net box sizes.) Oh ya thats right what do i know..... Seeing how it will almost be impossible to test them equally. If you invert, your net volume is bigger, we all know that. But if you build the exact same box but same net as have the sub normal, the dimensions won't be the exact same. So therefore isn't a comparable test. If you put something inside the box to take up space, that against is a variable that could change the outcome of the test. Plus each sub, each box design, each setup could be different. And just because there isn't any differences in perfect conditions doesn't not many in a vehicle, with hundreds, maybe thousands of variables could have a effect on the outcome. So what do you know? Please tell us. With that being said how can you say i am wrong? How can you say people who think it makes no difference are right or wrong? How can you say people who say its louder inverted are right? It is to hard for you to test. But come on guys i cant give away all my secrets even though if you think about theory and practical examples it should be easy to understand how it impedes output. That is if you havent already tested this.

no it won't. there is no difference between mounting a sub inverted vs. mounting it regular (assuming identical net box sizes.) Oh ya thats right what do i know.....

It will get louder mounted properly. But if you want to show it off invert it for sure.

These are some of my tests. Obviously much more then 3500 rms....... And these are not even as solid as the newer versions. And free air very hard on mechanical parts.