97SSBlazer Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Should I go with a Fi Re-cone or PSI? lower tuning is just hard. I was surprised how loud 145 sounds at 35hz, and how quiet 145 sounds at 50hz. -= 2005 Tahoe LT =-Head unit: Pioneer AVH-X5500BHSSource: iPad Mini in dash Subs: 2 T1 12's Sub Amp: T1500-1bdCPWire: Rockford Fosgate 1/0 awgSignal Cable: MonsterFronts:Stock Bose for now:)Rears: Stock Bose for now:)MIds/High amp: Stock Bose for now:) 2005 Tahoe Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/172529-2005-tahoe-my-17th-vehicle/ 2001 Monte Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/160030-2001-monte-carlo-my-16th-car-lol/page-2#entry25309381997 Tahoe Build Log: http://www.stevemead...oe-6-15-rf-15s/2001 Impala Build Log: http://www.stevemead...katzkin-inside/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E a r t h Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 so this happened at a 2ohm nominal load? seeing as that the sub is d1? the coils actually metered .7 EACH. 1.4 overall... that's not the nominal impedance. that figure you posted, is the "RE" or "DCR" resistance as measured with a digital multi meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDMstang65 Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 I have seen it happen locally to a guy in Memphis. His BTL blew sky high and caught on fire with a kicker zx1500 on it!!!!!!!!! I have never been a fan of Fi. I think it is a lot of hype and they have NOTHING special about what they build until the new neo setups came out. Funny part about this setup you have is it appears to have never been given much power either. I am gonna say piss poor connections on the tinsels and voice coils or obviously tinsels that become broke in the middle. The worse and worse the connection, the more heat it generated... compounding the problem of thinner and weaker tinsels which have become increasing brittle and less effective as a conductor. Eventually it breaks and then arcs big when makeing contact, momentarily of course, as the sub is still being driven by the other coil. I have heard of tinsel problems on ascendants as well... If you play them daily and ride with your tunes jamming all the time, they are destined to fail even within reccommended enclosures and under-rms power levels Not a thing wrong with the tinsel leads...it's the old addage of buying a car and driving it into a bridge..which is obviously the cars fault right? The issue is this (if you want to take the time to read it): There is nothing wrong with doing the leads like this and it only has issues and develops problems in the following situations. There are 3 things that come into play. 1) Those coils that are ".5ohm" are not ".5ohm" in parallel, they are .35ohm dcr. The power supply cannot supply enough current on the rails to the output side stage of the amplifier so it starves itself into trying to make power that it simply cannot make. Kicks out DC voltage and things get very nasty very quickly...which continue to read and I'll explain more. 2) Korean/Chinese amps. For those who do not know the bigger the amplifiers get the more issues you are going to run into. These things are designed and built on a power supply that has a bank that is plugged into a wall on a resistor that is always constant, not a sub-woofer. In order to get efficiency up so you can get more power out of the amp and put in less and less to get efficiency up above 85% or so they ramp up the switching frequency on the power supply of the amplifier itself. This ranges from board to manufacturer..but all of the bigger amps all have the same exact issue. What happens at these frequencies is you are reaching the range of "Microwaves". The amplifier does not filter this stuff out...and you cannot hear it as it is much higher then the frequency range that human ear can detect. Signal goes from the amplifier to the terminal block...the frequency range is outside of what the terminal block is so it continues to the tinsel leads. The tinsel leads have the current and voltage going through them in the first place which already makes heat present and why the spiders are treated with flame retardant coating to prevent it from catching on fire. What happens is the amplifier's switching power supply actually 'Microwaves' the tinsel leads at the frequency in which it is switching at which happens to be very close to the resonant frequency of the size of wire and material of the tinsel leads themselves. When you throw a piece of aluminum foil in a microwave in your house...or a CD..what happens? There is a HUGE generation of heat because on a molecular level the material itself is vibrating back and forth at that given set of frequencies...which is how a microwave warms your TV dinner up. 3) When you start to drop an amp below 1ohm more heat is being built up because the power supply side of things of the amplifier simply cannot handle the demand that the output stage is wanting to get. When you do not have a subsonic filter...or one that is set improperly...you then start to make this thing that you've just microwaved move... Take a can of coke, pop it open and bend it back and forth a few millimeters...within it's mechanical limitations that tab will never break. Now if you start to bend it past its mechanical limitations is when you start to get into trouble. This is where the subsonic filter comes in and making sure that you are not playing full power below port tuning frequency of a sub. If you already have something that's hot from running it hard on one of the Korean amps and you start yanking the soft parts past their mechanical limitations more and more heat builds up... You get to the point where so much heat builds up that the spiders start smoldering...they won't catch on fire until you've clipped the signal to death, vaporized all of the flame retardant spray that the spiders are soaked in and then it smokes. (square wave form, dc voltage and induction heating out of the amp because the power supply cannot handle what you are doing to it) It's not the sub, there is absolutely nothing wrong with running those leads like they are. What's going on is an issue of the big cheap Korean amplifiers in and of themselves...and total ill-regard to what a microwave and conductive material does. Hope this helps you understand...if you run a Crown A6000Gti you'll never have a problem...because it's an A/B amp....the other stuff that is cheap...don't run it below 1ohm or you are going to have nothing but problems because in order to get that big power cheaply and cut out on the parts that are going into the amplifier the switching frequency of the power supply must be ramped way up...in turn microwaving woofer parts. There will be no finger pointing as I've already tested all of this stuff and know exactly what is going on. Don't design an amp on a resistor...and don't wire an amp below 1ohm, don't clip the piss out of it to get the tinsel leads so freaking hot that they glow, no bass boost etc. you'll never have a problem. Moral of the story? Lay off the what I like to call the "stupid button". It will hurt your wallet every time...because stupidity is not covered under any warranty at all. Regards Authorized Ascendant Audio Dealer! Message me for information. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough -Albert Einstein "I have a plausible excuse for not liking you. And you know why." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supercharged DCs Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 ^^^^great read, very informative mate Bassless once again. Can't seem to keep a system for more than a few weeks Saving for a '06 Nissan 350z, look for build around June 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97SSBlazer Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 My amp was seeing 1.4 On my DMM Im so lost on this thing, This setup has been in my car for 2 months now just fine, I was playing the same song at the same volume as I have for over 100 demos and always been fine, Im using an RF T2500-1 I have RF 1/0 a 200+ amp alt, NO voltage drop AT ALL!, so I have no idea.... lower tuning is just hard. I was surprised how loud 145 sounds at 35hz, and how quiet 145 sounds at 50hz. -= 2005 Tahoe LT =-Head unit: Pioneer AVH-X5500BHSSource: iPad Mini in dash Subs: 2 T1 12's Sub Amp: T1500-1bdCPWire: Rockford Fosgate 1/0 awgSignal Cable: MonsterFronts:Stock Bose for now:)Rears: Stock Bose for now:)MIds/High amp: Stock Bose for now:) 2005 Tahoe Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/172529-2005-tahoe-my-17th-vehicle/ 2001 Monte Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/160030-2001-monte-carlo-my-16th-car-lol/page-2#entry25309381997 Tahoe Build Log: http://www.stevemead...oe-6-15-rf-15s/2001 Impala Build Log: http://www.stevemead...katzkin-inside/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick0118 Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 ^^^^great read, very informative mate Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDMstang65 Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 My amp was seeing 1.4 On my DMM Im so lost on this thing, This setup has been in my car for 2 months now just fine, I was playing the same song at the same volume as I have for over 100 demos and always been fine, Im using an RF T2500-1 I have RF 1/0 a 200+ amp alt, NO voltage drop AT ALL!, so I have no idea.... Do you have an adjustable subsonic filter in with that amplifier as well? You can not get 1.4ohms out of a dual 1.4ohm coil if you have both coils hooked up. It's mathematically impossible. Speakers are stupid..they just do what you tell them to do. Exactly like driving the car into the bridge..the end result is pretty similar lol. You've been doing something wrong for quite some time..and it finally burned up. A speaker will take a fair amount of abuse before it completely fails...as will the pop top on a coke can. Authorized Ascendant Audio Dealer! Message me for information. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough -Albert Einstein "I have a plausible excuse for not liking you. And you know why." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97SSBlazer Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 NO boost what so ever, subsonic on the RF T2500 is a switch which was ON @ 28Hz. lower tuning is just hard. I was surprised how loud 145 sounds at 35hz, and how quiet 145 sounds at 50hz. -= 2005 Tahoe LT =-Head unit: Pioneer AVH-X5500BHSSource: iPad Mini in dash Subs: 2 T1 12's Sub Amp: T1500-1bdCPWire: Rockford Fosgate 1/0 awgSignal Cable: MonsterFronts:Stock Bose for now:)Rears: Stock Bose for now:)MIds/High amp: Stock Bose for now:) 2005 Tahoe Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/172529-2005-tahoe-my-17th-vehicle/ 2001 Monte Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/160030-2001-monte-carlo-my-16th-car-lol/page-2#entry25309381997 Tahoe Build Log: http://www.stevemead...oe-6-15-rf-15s/2001 Impala Build Log: http://www.stevemead...katzkin-inside/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97SSBlazer Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 the coils are .7 EACH wired in parallel would be 1.4.... lower tuning is just hard. I was surprised how loud 145 sounds at 35hz, and how quiet 145 sounds at 50hz. -= 2005 Tahoe LT =-Head unit: Pioneer AVH-X5500BHSSource: iPad Mini in dash Subs: 2 T1 12's Sub Amp: T1500-1bdCPWire: Rockford Fosgate 1/0 awgSignal Cable: MonsterFronts:Stock Bose for now:)Rears: Stock Bose for now:)MIds/High amp: Stock Bose for now:) 2005 Tahoe Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/172529-2005-tahoe-my-17th-vehicle/ 2001 Monte Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/160030-2001-monte-carlo-my-16th-car-lol/page-2#entry25309381997 Tahoe Build Log: http://www.stevemead...oe-6-15-rf-15s/2001 Impala Build Log: http://www.stevemead...katzkin-inside/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDMstang65 Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 the coils are .7 EACH wired in parallel would be 1.4.... That would be .35 in parallel, 1.4 in series...and that subsonic filter in that amp is useless unless you have your box tuned to 29-30Hz. A 12dB slope is by far not steep enough. Authorized Ascendant Audio Dealer! Message me for information. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough -Albert Einstein "I have a plausible excuse for not liking you. And you know why." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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