Changing the sound of my subs. How?

[Mazurat]

Ok here's the scoop. I've been a fan of subs ever since I was a 14 years old, but never actually got any installed until last month. I got 2 12 inch Alpine Type X's cause based on my (very limited) research it was a sub built for sound quality and not SPL. I swear, watching vids on youtube about type x's flexing windshields and pounding hard I was absolutely convinced they were the perfect subs for me. Anywhoo, got the subs installed and the guy at the car audio shop explained to me the difference between ported and sealed. Sounded like Ported was the way to go for me! Loud? Fuck yeah! Sign me up! They didn't have a tuning program at the store so they said they were gonna be vent port tuned to 32 Hz built to the specs in the owners manual that came with the subs. (By the way whats the difference in sound between a box tuned for say...28 hz and 36 hz etc I know they'll play their hz's nicely but I was wondering about the rest of the time when the music isn't on their frequencies)

Long story short, its totally not the bass for me and it doesn't pound as hard as I thought they would. It doesn't sound good to me. I tried dicking around with the settings on the amp but I cant get that deeper bass that I want. So to figure out the problem I did some researching, and more researching, and even more reading up on subs/sound systems and whatnot and now I know where I went wrong. I should have went with a sealed box right? So here's my dilemma. My subs have a sealed box range of .65 - 1.25 cubic feet and an optimum of 1.0 cubic feet. I want bass that's right for me, so do I aim for the lower volume box? Higher Volume? Optimum? I wont be using the recommended box because it's square and I want to avoid that cause in my research it says equal sides have a resonant frequency in the midbass region. So I've come up with basic designs for a simple slanted box. As for mounting, I currently have a rectangular cube with the front open. At either end is a ported box with the amp in the center gap. Within that open enclosure I can mount the boxes pretty much any way I please so I'm open to new ideas. Either have the subs facing each other, away from each other, or even facing the back panel with the same concepts as a hatchback lol (I dunno how that would sound but I'd be willing to try lol) Anyways, I know to get more flex I gotta upgrade my electrical system/charging to feed the subs more juice. To give you an idea of what type of bass I like, here are a few youtube video links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnL1msWNvrg The bass between 6s and 12s sounds perfect for me. Picture that sound, just louder (Edit: Listen to this with earphones that have ear buds, or you have a good comp sound system, I couldnt even hear the bass between 6-12s when I unplugged my earphones)

The bass at the start of the video looking at the back window (The first 12 seconds) sounds good to me

Also, another option would be to completely ditch the Alpines and go with bigger size and brand. I can easily fit 4 12's, 3 15's (Mebbe 4 with some squeezing but I doubt it) and 2 18's (probably not 3) If people here can toss me some advice that will be greatly appreciated. And if the advice is to toss the 12's my budget for new subs/amps would probably be in the 5 - 6 grand region. I can build my own boxes if need be and electrical wont be included in that budget (I'll get what I need, when I need it, speaking of which MECHMAN! I'll be hollering! lol)

Edited November 25, 2011 by Mazurat

[rusty959]

From the sound of your post.... and a 5-6k budget id definitely ditch the alpines and jump for something a bit more powerful. Personally Id jump for the 2 18's option. But, since it seems like you may be new to the installing part of car audio, don't jump ahead of yourself. When you start moving a lot of power things can go wrong quickly, and this usually means it gets even more expensive. That being said at least in an Escalade you aren't extremely cramped for space which is good for starting out, so if you do install it yourself, just go slowly and be careful. etc.

Edit: Reason for suggesting you switch is to get some more cone area. This will help out with the deeper bass you want. Not that it can't be done with a couple 12's but it is easier and usually louder with more cone area. I personally prefer subs bigger than 12's, don't like odd numbers of subs, and no reason to go with 2 15's if you can do 2 18's IMO. Others might not agree. But this is why I suggested 2 18's

Edited November 24, 2011 by rusty959

[corey0928]

What amp are you using? And what head unit? And what are the settings on the amp and head unit?

[Mazurat]

Yeah the (guess I'll call it the housing) housing for the boxes is behind my rear seats (I removed the box access panel) and extends into the box, so I got a lot of length to play with, but I'm limited on my width

[That1Kid]

How much power are you putting to them? If you wanna be anywhere near as loud as those videos, you will need a giant amp, and good subs.

That being said...you will need 1/0 cable for power/grounds, H/O Alternator, batteries to power the amp.

If you just wanna make your setup louder...you can build a better box. With a 4th order, you will have a flatter response over a wider range of frequencies. Also, do the big 3 upgrade to beef up your electrical.

Just my $.02

Edit: just saw your budget. New subs/amp. Do 2 18s imo. No reason to go with less cone area since you are in an escalade. And definitely build your own box.

Edited November 24, 2011 by That1Kid

[Mazurat]

@ Rusty, Yeah I know it can be done with 12's but how can I go about doing that? I know its all in the boxes but how would I go about doing it for my current setup? IE: Build boxes on the larger volume side? Minimum volume? Optimum volume? I just want that rich clear deep bass, loudness is important but it is secondary to me (but not by much, I'll go as loud as I can lol) And yes, I am a complete rookie to system builds scene. I dont wanna go overkill then do it all wrong lol.

@ Corey, Alpine MRP-M2000 D Class mono @ 2000 watts RMS @ 2 Ohms (subs are wired for 2ohm load)

Head Unit is the stock Escalade I haven't done enough (Read: Any) research on what to look for in a head unit. I'm taking babysteps lol I want the subs done the way I want them before moving on to the rest of the stereo system. As for the settings, it doesn't matter what I set the Bass Treble and Midrange, it all sounds pretty much the same, crank the bass up, turn the treble all the way down and it doesn't sound much different from bass all the way down and treble all the way up (I know I should look at getting a head unit that gives me more range but like I said, baby steps lol)

As for amp settings, I dicked around with the amp, and I cant seem to find the right tuning for my ears Anywhoo, tuning options are Subsonic Filter 0-15-30 Mine is set at 15, Phase 0 and 180 (Dunno how it works but I got a good idea of what it does) Its set at 180. Gain, Bass Boost 0-12 dB and Bass EQ 20hz-200hz (I haven't found a good mix of boost, EQ and LPF, any suggestions here are welcome), Bass Center Frequency (Dunno how this works, manual said select the bass frequency you want to boost(Should I tune to 32hz like my box? I tried that and it sounded terrible)). And LPF (Should I set this lowish or highish?) As this is my first sub system, I have zero experience tuning amps, I got a rough idea of what each does, but as for tuning it, I'm just twisting dials till I hear something I like. I don't know which settings I should be aiming for. After finding a decent sounding mix, I jump in the drivers seat and listen to it from there and it sounds completely garbage to my ears lol. Hop back out and into the back seat for another wave of random dialing Any and all advice is welcome.

@That1kid, I have a 2000 watts RMS @ 2 Ohms D Class mono running them. And I think you misunderstood what I'm trying to achieve with my subs, yes those two videos are loud, but loud isn't my primary goal. I want the bass at *CERTAIN* times in those videos, the top video with the sundowns the bass I love is between 6 seconds and 12 seconds, before the first decent hit @ 14s. It's kind of hard to hear, but the bass that starts at 6s's sounds perfect for me. Just think of that sound, only louder. Listen to it a few times to see what I mean. As for the second video, the bass I really like the sound of is during the first 12 seconds. I want that type of sound. And yes, I know I have to do the big 3, I was going to do it last time I was at home (gone away for work 2/3's - 3/4's of the time) but I couldn't find a place that sold high strand 0 Gauge that wasn't part of a kit. Or the connectors, speaking of which, would radio shack have that stuff? As for swapping to 2 18's. Which ones(not literally asking)? there are so many great options available to me. I'd be stuck pondering which ones to get from now until after the new years hangover and still be undecided. For now my main goal is sound quality, crystal clear deep bass. That might change in the future, who knows when I might get the sudden urge to create an earthquake at every red light lol We'll see.

Edit: I installed a Kinetik Power Cell KHC2000 for a second battery, and all the power/ground are all 0Gauge Monster

Edited November 25, 2011 by Mazurat

[r0llinlacs]

First, get rid of the stock head unit. That alone could be the reason your lower notes aren't hitting. Get a decent brand head unit (Alpine, Kenwood, Pioneer). Don't beat yourself up over it though, almost any aftermarket deck will be better than stock.

Next, get a bigger slot port box built. Somewhere around the neighborhood of 2 to 2.5 cubic feet for each sub. I don't get all into the paramaters and specs, I just build based on the fact that more air space = lower resonant frequency.

A simple, yet very effective way of freeing up air space inside the box is to mount the subs backwards. Having the magnet on the outside of the box, and the concave shape of the cone inside the box will both add precious space without building or buying anything. This will give you decent results until you plan your next move, or you may even be happy with it set up like that.

Edited February 25, 2012 by r0llinlacs

[White Lightning]

Is this a Sound Quality thread ??