So, how many out there set gains with 0db instead of -5db tones?

[CJ18]

I use 0db with my subs if I know I have enough or possibly more power than I need and -5 if I am close to or just under where I want to be.

I like -5 with my mids and highs, but once again because I am just under RMS power to them.

[moh.vze.com]

I'd set it with -0db tones, but at a number on your volume knob a step or two under HU clipping. That way, you know where your threshold is and when you're dipping into overhead. If you just go by the -5db tones, you can get into clipping and not know it.

I've already determined my H/U's max vol without clipping and I decided to go with 30/35 to be safe.

I was using Meade's DD-1 pdf guide. In his guide it seems like he recommends his users to use either -5db or -10db test ones for setting the gains.

I've just loaded a good amount of music into Audacity and a lot of songs have a constant 0db range; as a result, I might go back and retune everthing with a -5db test tone just to be safe

I'll wait for more opinions on this before I do this though.

[Quiet]

There's no reason to go -5, then... If you know where you start to clip, using -5 tones just makes it uncertain again.

as long as the clipping isn't in the recording itself, you'll be fine. If the music has clipping in it already, no matter where you set your gains your speakers will see it.

[01ExSport]

I'd set it with -0db tones, but at a number on your volume knob a step or two under HU clipping. That way, you know where your threshold is and when you're dipping into overhead. If you just go by the -5db tones, you can get into clipping and not know it.

I've already determined my H/U's max vol without clipping and I decided to go with 30/35 to be safe.

I was using Meade's DD-1 pdf guide. In his guide it seems like he recommends his users to use either -5db or -10db test ones for setting the gains.

I've just loaded a good amount of music into Audacity and a lot of songs have a constant 0db range; as a result, I might go back and retune everthing with a -5db test tone just to be safe

I'll wait for more opinions on this before I do this though.

I think I'm missing the point of your situation? 0db is safer than -5 so I'm not sure why you'd increase your chance of clipping to "be safe"?

If setting with a 0, you can pretty much bet you won't have to be worried about anything.

But the 0db you see in audacity is most likely from mids/highs, whereas lows on music is probably in the ballpark of -5 to -12 or somewhere around those lines. Or at least that's what I've picked up.

Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm off on that one.

But fwiw, -5 for my oncoming build

[Colin - STAPUFT]

0 dB for me sir.

[Decaf]

i have used the -5db test track for mine and it sounds good ive checked songs in audacity and there around -8db

That's rare. Most properly "mastered" recordings are fairly close to 0db to get as much dynamic range from the medium as possible. If you're using recycled music (dubbed, remixed, chopped n screwed) then it's likely you're either throwing away dynamic range or clipping all to hell and back. Sorry I trust pro studio engineers a lot more than youtube mixmasters.

If it's not loud enough at 0db, get more power.

The overall song reaches 0dB yes, but once the signal is LPF'd the sub will only see -10dB to -5dB, the rest of the data belongs to the mids/highs.

Your an idiot to think just because someone is a "pro studio engineer" that you are safer or that they are somehow better. Look at Timbaland, there isn't a song that doesn't have a clipped kick drum in it and he uses one of the most expensive studios created with well educated staff.

I'd set it with -0db tones, but at a number on your volume knob a step or two under HU clipping. That way, you know where your threshold is and when you're dipping into overhead. If you just go by the -5db tones, you can get into clipping and not know it.

I've already determined my H/U's max vol without clipping and I decided to go with 30/35 to be safe.

I was using Meade's DD-1 pdf guide. In his guide it seems like he recommends his users to use either -5db or -10db test ones for setting the gains.

I've just loaded a good amount of music into Audacity and a lot of songs have a constant 0db range; as a result, I might go back and retune everthing with a -5db test tone just to be safe

I'll wait for more opinions on this before I do this though.

Remember as stated above that the only speakers seeing 0dB would be those given full range, which almost no speakers are full range in car audio. The subs signal is LowPassFilterered and thus the sub wont see 0dB. The mids will get HighPassFiltered and thus won't see 0dB. The tweeters will see the least amount of data, again because its HighPassFiltered and only allow highs to pass through.

Before the DD-1 the most common setting was -3dB@50hz to set gains with. Rockford Fosgate has, since the 360, suggested using gain overlap and to use -10dB@40hz, hence the DD-1 having options of -5, -10, -15.

There's no reason to go -5, then... If you know where you start to clip, using -5 tones just makes it uncertain again.

as long as the clipping isn't in the recording itself, you'll be fine. If the music has clipping in it already, no matter where you set your gains your speakers will see it.

0dB is the safest setting but you can still clip the amp. Nothing is fool proof because the music you play matters more than the gain setting IMO. Learning what music should look like on an oscope played in real time is very important. I refuse to play a song in my stereo without knowing what the waveform looks like. Thats why for 5 years I haven't damaged a single piece of equipment yet I play the loudest songs available.

[moh.vze.com]

Thanks for the info decaf. As far as u saying u don't play music ad. Long as u know what it looks like, can u give an audacity screen shot example? Do u load all ur music into audacity and have "show clipping" checked to see if the song is clipping?

[Decaf]

watch every song you download via Windows Media Player Oscope, thats what I would hope everyone does because it prevents almost all problems with playing the wrong songs.

Now Playing Screen > Right Click > Bars and Waves > Scope

You can mess around with the graphic equalizer to see what happens when you boost the bass, this will clip the bass and flatten the waveform and let you see very clearly what will ruin subs and sub amps. Add 6dB and not much more so you don't ruin your headphones. By seeing the detrimental clipping while hearing the detrimental clipping you train your hear/eyes to pick it up quickly while going through your music collection as you download/acquire it.

Notice once the bassline starts to flatten after the boost that the mids/highs start to dissappear and sound very muddy/lost... that's because the data was pushed beyond 0dB and was lost. This is why you cannot recover a song that has lots of clipping, the distortion created from clipping combined with the data being chopped off leaves you with an unpleasant sound that will keep speakers at peak voltage more, resulting in the heat build up that ruins equipment.

Audacity's "Show Clipping" feature shows where the song has surpassed 0dB. This is NOT a good indication because millseconds of mids/highs is usually whats beyond 0dB and not the bass, what IS detrimental are the large flat plateau'd bass lines that "Show Clipping" will not indicate.

[Quiet]

i have used the -5db test track for mine and it sounds good ive checked songs in audacity and there around -8db

That's rare. Most properly "mastered" recordings are fairly close to 0db to get as much dynamic range from the medium as possible. If you're using recycled music (dubbed, remixed, chopped n screwed) then it's likely you're either throwing away dynamic range or clipping all to hell and back. Sorry I trust pro studio engineers a lot more than youtube mixmasters.

If it's not loud enough at 0db, get more power.

The overall song reaches 0dB yes, but once the signal is LPF'd the sub will only see -10dB to -5dB, the rest of the data belongs to the mids/highs.

Your an idiot to think just because someone is a "pro studio engineer" that you are safer or that they are somehow better. Look at Timbaland, there isn't a song that doesn't have a clipped kick drum in it and he uses one of the most expensive studios created with well educated staff.

No, I'm not an idiot, you are presumptious. And I'm sorry if you took offense... You might be only one of the few guys doing what you do that actually cares about clipping (you, BigPimpin91 and Slow 'n Throw.) Obviously there are exceptions especially with Timbaland and most "home studio" hip hop. However, I stand by the fact that I said "MOST PROPERLY MASTERED RECORDINGS" are decent and unclipped. Not everyone listens to all electronic music... You say Timbaland is doing it right cause he has properly trained staff but all his songs are clipping??? He obviously isn't doing it right. You can hear that clipping without a scope it's so bad BTW.

I'd set it with -0db tones, but at a number on your volume knob a step or two under HU clipping. That way, you know where your threshold is and when you're dipping into overhead. If you just go by the -5db tones, you can get into clipping and not know it.

I've already determined my H/U's max vol without clipping and I decided to go with 30/35 to be safe.

I was using Meade's DD-1 pdf guide. In his guide it seems like he recommends his users to use either -5db or -10db test ones for setting the gains.

I've just loaded a good amount of music into Audacity and a lot of songs have a constant 0db range; as a result, I might go back and retune everthing with a -5db test tone just to be safe

I'll wait for more opinions on this before I do this though.

Remember as stated above that the only speakers seeing 0dB would be those given full range, which almost no speakers are full range in car audio. The subs signal is LowPassFilterered and thus the sub wont see 0dB. The mids will get HighPassFiltered and thus won't see 0dB. The tweeters will see the least amount of data, again because its HighPassFiltered and only allow highs to pass through.

Before the DD-1 the most common setting was -3dB@50hz to set gains with. Rockford Fosgate has, since the 360, suggested using gain overlap and to use -10dB@40hz, hence the DD-1 having options of -5, -10, -15.

So? If you're using a tone that's 1khz at 0, that's the loudest it will put out clean. period. You don't use 1k to set your sub gains and you don't use 40 or 50hz to set your mids/highs. What am I missing?!? The -5 -10 -15 options just allow for overhead.

There's no reason to go -5, then... If you know where you start to clip, using -5 tones just makes it uncertain again.

as long as the clipping isn't in the recording itself, you'll be fine. If the music has clipping in it already, no matter where you set your gains your speakers will see it.

0dB is the safest setting but you can still clip the amp. Nothing is fool proof because the music you play matters more than the gain setting IMO. Learning what music should look like on an oscope played in real time is very important. I refuse to play a song in my stereo without knowing what the waveform looks like. Thats why for 5 years I haven't damaged a single piece of equipment yet I play the loudest songs available.

Dude, I said that before, that if your music has clipping your speakers will see it no matter what the gains are at. The idea about setting gains with a DD1 is that you will not turn all your unclipped music into clipped signal, roasting your speakers in the process. If you're set at 0 and have unclipped music you will not cliip your speakers. That's the whole point. I'm not saying that -5 absolutely will kill your subs if you dip into overhead, but your chances multiply BIG TIME if you do.

[Quiet]

watch every song you download via Windows Media Player Oscope, thats what I would hope everyone does because it prevents almost all problems with playing the wrong songs.

Now Playing Screen > Right Click > Bars and Waves > Scope

You can mess around with the graphic equalizer to see what happens when you boost the bass, this will clip the bass and flatten the waveform and let you see very clearly what will ruin subs and sub amps. Add 6dB and not much more so you don't ruin your headphones. By seeing the detrimental clipping while hearing the detrimental clipping you train your hear/eyes to pick it up quickly while going through your music collection as you download/acquire it.

Notice once the bassline starts to flatten after the boost that the mids/highs start to dissappear and sound very muddy/lost... that's because the data was pushed beyond 0dB and was lost. This is why you cannot recover a song that has lots of clipping, the distortion created from clipping combined with the data being chopped off leaves you with an unpleasant sound that will keep speakers at peak voltage more, resulting in the heat build up that ruins equipment.

Audacity's "Show Clipping" feature shows where the song has surpassed 0dB. This is NOT a good indication because millseconds of mids/highs is usually whats beyond 0dB and not the bass, what IS detrimental are the large flat plateau'd bass lines that "Show Clipping" will not indicate.

This is probably the most important thing anyone here will read regarding protecting your gear from clipping.