Where are the best places to experiment with 45 degree corners, what sizes should i start with?

[dtleonard26]

Im going to be building a box soon and was wondering about an interior kerf port instead of a 45 like this picture.

[ALPINE408]

LMAO!!! 45's help air flow hahahhahahaha

1 a box does not create air flow like water flow air does not "flow" out of your box a sub moves back and forth very violently sucking and push air example take a bottle of water that is half full and shake the shit out of it back and forth and look what is happening to the water basicaly the same as what air does in a box its not "flowing" so your better air flow argument is invalid

2 as a old hardcore compititor i have tested and built more boxes and theories than i can remeber... 45's anywhere in the box 99.9% no matter of size killed spl up to a few DBs and thats a lot

3 45's do not add strength the corner of te box is the strongest point

1) I understand that the air is moving in and out of the box, not just out. But that's the thing, it is in fact pushing and pulling in and out of the box. So any method that does in fact improve the fluid flow of air will in fact improve the efficiency of the enclosure.

2) Yes "killing SPL by a few DB's" is "a lot" but I am curious to see the proof, has anyone done a side by side test, one box with 45's and one without (with the one without being built to the same exact net volume?) Again, don't take this the wrong way, I just think it would be an interesting test for someone to do. I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but I think it is more advantageous for people on the forum to see documented proof rather than: "45's don't work, don't use them".

3) 45's will add strength to the enclosure! Don't get me wrong, bracing across the enclosure is far more effective, but adding any sort of "truss" between two structures that are at a 90 degree angle will definitely add strength.

i have done millions of test not on 2 boxes side by side but the same box no 45 did a 152.8 added a 1 45 did a 151.9 then took that 45 out and put in a differnt place did a 152.3 then added 45's to every corner did a 150.7 and that is just on the last box i was testing there were many MANY more with simalar results i just can't remeber all the numbers from 16 years of doing this stuff

if you dont want to belive it thats fine YOU TEST it! we have

[CarAudioFab]

LMAO!!! 45's help air flow hahahhahahaha

1 a box does not create air flow like water flow air does not "flow" out of your box a sub moves back and forth very violently sucking and push air example take a bottle of water that is half full and shake the shit out of it back and forth and look what is happening to the water basicaly the same as what air does in a box its not "flowing" so your better air flow argument is invalid

2 as a old hardcore compititor i have tested and built more boxes and theories than i can remeber... 45's anywhere in the box 99.9% no matter of size killed spl up to a few DBs and thats a lot

3 45's do not add strength the corner of te box is the strongest point

1) I understand that the air is moving in and out of the box, not just out. But that's the thing, it is in fact pushing and pulling in and out of the box. So any method that does in fact improve the fluid flow of air will in fact improve the efficiency of the enclosure.

2) Yes "killing SPL by a few DB's" is "a lot" but I am curious to see the proof, has anyone done a side by side test, one box with 45's and one without (with the one without being built to the same exact net volume?) Again, don't take this the wrong way, I just think it would be an interesting test for someone to do. I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but I think it is more advantageous for people on the forum to see documented proof rather than: "45's don't work, don't use them".

3) 45's will add strength to the enclosure! Don't get me wrong, bracing across the enclosure is far more effective, but adding any sort of "truss" between two structures that are at a 90 degree angle will definitely add strength.

i have done millions of test not on 2 boxes side by side but the same box no 45 did a 152.8 added a 1 45 did a 151.9 then took that 45 out and put in a differnt place did a 152.3 then added 45's to every corner did a 150.7 and that is just on the last box i was testing there were many MANY more with simalar results i just can't remeber all the numbers from 16 years of doing this stuff

if you dont want to belive it thats fine YOU TEST it! we have

Hey, its not that I don't think your right, thank you for that description of your test. But the way you did the test it seems like you built the box, and then tested it without 45's, then you added a 45, and got poor results. But by performing the test in that manner you decreased the volume within the enclosure, so isn't it not surprising that you also experienced a reduction in output?

What I want to know is if you added the 45, but also increased the enclosure volume to account for what was taken up by the 45, what would happen. I am guessing not much in a random corner, but in the case of a port corner... I still feel it would have positive results.

I may be testing this in the future!

[Kyblack76]

"What I want to know is if you added the 45, but also increased the enclosure volume to account for what was taken up by the 45, what would happen. I am guessing not much in a random corner, but in the case of a port corner... I still feel it would have positive results.

I may be testing this in the future!"

You dont think thats been done,... and done.... and done.. and done..

well.. good luck with your "tests"

[CarAudioFab]

"What I want to know is if you added the 45, but also increased the enclosure volume to account for what was taken up by the 45, what would happen. I am guessing not much in a random corner, but in the case of a port corner... I still feel it would have positive results.

I may be testing this in the future!"

You dont think thats been done,... and done.... and done.. and done..

well.. good luck with your "tests"

I'm sure its been done but has anyone documented it? Has anyone tested it in the way I mentioned above where you actually compensate for the volume the 45 takes up? I mean I'm offering to research something with my time, something that could potentially help prove something to us, and you're going to discourage me? Really?

But I mean I guess we could keep doing everything the same way we have always done it rather than trying to prove things using science, that's how the world has progressed.

[Kyblack76]

"What I want to know is if you added the 45, but also increased the enclosure volume to account for what was taken up by the 45, what would happen. I am guessing not much in a random corner, but in the case of a port corner... I still feel it would have positive results.

I may be testing this in the future!"

You dont think thats been done,... and done.... and done.. and done..

well.. good luck with your "tests"

I'm sure its been done but has anyone documented it? Has anyone tested it in the way I mentioned above where you actually compensate for the volume the 45 takes up? I mean I'm offering to research something with my time, something that could potentially help prove something to us, and you're going to discourage me? Really?

But I mean I guess we could keep doing everything the same way we have always done it rather than trying to prove things using science, that's how the world has progressed.

Hey bro... eat it up.

No discourage here..

You want to do a correct, and unbias test. Rip it up.

What drivers you gonna use? how much power? with what gear? in what car? with what electrical? on tone? or music? at what HZ?

[ALPINE408]

LMAO!!! 45's help air flow hahahhahahaha

1 a box does not create air flow like water flow air does not "flow" out of your box a sub moves back and forth very violently sucking and push air example take a bottle of water that is half full and shake the shit out of it back and forth and look what is happening to the water basicaly the same as what air does in a box its not "flowing" so your better air flow argument is invalid

2 as a old hardcore compititor i have tested and built more boxes and theories than i can remeber... 45's anywhere in the box 99.9% no matter of size killed spl up to a few DBs and thats a lot

3 45's do not add strength the corner of te box is the strongest point

1) I understand that the air is moving in and out of the box, not just out. But that's the thing, it is in fact pushing and pulling in and out of the box. So any method that does in fact improve the fluid flow of air will in fact improve the efficiency of the enclosure.

2) Yes "killing SPL by a few DB's" is "a lot" but I am curious to see the proof, has anyone done a side by side test, one box with 45's and one without (with the one without being built to the same exact net volume?) Again, don't take this the wrong way, I just think it would be an interesting test for someone to do. I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but I think it is more advantageous for people on the forum to see documented proof rather than: "45's don't work, don't use them".

3) 45's will add strength to the enclosure! Don't get me wrong, bracing across the enclosure is far more effective, but adding any sort of "truss" between two structures that are at a 90 degree angle will definitely add strength.

i have done millions of test not on 2 boxes side by side but the same box no 45 did a 152.8 added a 1 45 did a 151.9 then took that 45 out and put in a differnt place did a 152.3 then added 45's to every corner did a 150.7 and that is just on the last box i was testing there were many MANY more with simalar results i just can't remeber all the numbers from 16 years of doing this stuff

if you dont want to belive it thats fine YOU TEST it! we have

Hey, its not that I don't think your right, thank you for that description of your test. But the way you did the test it seems like you built the box, and then tested it without 45's, then you added a 45, and got poor results. But by performing the test in that manner you decreased the volume within the enclosure, so isn't it not surprising that you also experienced a reduction in output?

What I want to know is if you added the 45, but also increased the enclosure volume to account for what was taken up by the 45, what would happen. I am guessing not much in a random corner, but in the case of a port corner... I still feel it would have positive results.

I may be testing this in the future!

try it out and let us know but i will tell you this i have tryed with differnt size 45's even tiny ones that would only take .001 percent of the box volume still with negative results

do you really think making a box .001 % bigger would have a differnt outcome?

[HHR Ed]

"What I want to know is if you added the 45, but also increased the enclosure volume to account for what was taken up by the 45, what would happen. I am guessing not much in a random corner, but in the case of a port corner... I still feel it would have positive results.

I may be testing this in the future!"

You dont think thats been done,... and done.... and done.. and done..

well.. good luck with your "tests"

I'm sure its been done but has anyone documented it? Has anyone tested it in the way I mentioned above where you actually compensate for the volume the 45 takes up? I mean I'm offering to research something with my time, something that could potentially help prove something to us, and you're going to discourage me? Really?

But I mean I guess we could keep doing everything the same way we have always done it rather than trying to prove things using science, that's how the world has progressed.

Yes, I have tried as well as tons of dB Drag guys.

I tested and tested a bunch but mostly before I had a camera or YouTube channel. Heck, probably before youtube even existed.

The reason I tested was because when I was in installer school, our book on enclosures said that interior shapes did not matter as long as volume was correct. I didn't agree with this as I knew standing waves and pockets of pressure could occur inside.

So I set out to test.

As well did Terry Brocks, multi time Db Drag Champion. He had built over 100 enclosures for his CRX, and the loudest one. The one that did 159 with 4 10s was completely rectangular. No angles.

My results were the same.

What we found was that the port was the most important factor. The shape, size and length of the port was so much more important than angles or interior box shape.

It was so important that a 8.35" diameter port was over 1dB louder than a 8.5" diameter port.

[CarAudioFab]

"What I want to know is if you added the 45, but also increased the enclosure volume to account for what was taken up by the 45, what would happen. I am guessing not much in a random corner, but in the case of a port corner... I still feel it would have positive results.

I may be testing this in the future!"

You dont think thats been done,... and done.... and done.. and done..

well.. good luck with your "tests"

I'm sure its been done but has anyone documented it? Has anyone tested it in the way I mentioned above where you actually compensate for the volume the 45 takes up? I mean I'm offering to research something with my time, something that could potentially help prove something to us, and you're going to discourage me? Really?

But I mean I guess we could keep doing everything the same way we have always done it rather than trying to prove things using science, that's how the world has progressed.

Hey bro... eat it up.

No discourage here..

You want to do a correct, and unbias test. Rip it up.

What drivers you gonna use? how much power? with what gear? in what car? with what electrical? on tone? or music? at what HZ?

Driver, power, gear, car, and electrical all wouldn't matter, as long as consistent between tests. I would have to say tone, obviously the same on each. What HZ do you guys think?

The plan would be two identical enclosures. One with 45's one without, but with the one without having one slight larger dimension that didn't effect port length or cross sectional area.

Would obviously have to use same location within the vehicle as well.

[CarAudioFab]

LMAO!!! 45's help air flow hahahhahahaha

1 a box does not create air flow like water flow air does not "flow" out of your box a sub moves back and forth very violently sucking and push air example take a bottle of water that is half full and shake the shit out of it back and forth and look what is happening to the water basicaly the same as what air does in a box its not "flowing" so your better air flow argument is invalid

2 as a old hardcore compititor i have tested and built more boxes and theories than i can remeber... 45's anywhere in the box 99.9% no matter of size killed spl up to a few DBs and thats a lot

3 45's do not add strength the corner of te box is the strongest point

1) I understand that the air is moving in and out of the box, not just out. But that's the thing, it is in fact pushing and pulling in and out of the box. So any method that does in fact improve the fluid flow of air will in fact improve the efficiency of the enclosure.

2) Yes "killing SPL by a few DB's" is "a lot" but I am curious to see the proof, has anyone done a side by side test, one box with 45's and one without (with the one without being built to the same exact net volume?) Again, don't take this the wrong way, I just think it would be an interesting test for someone to do. I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but I think it is more advantageous for people on the forum to see documented proof rather than: "45's don't work, don't use them".

3) 45's will add strength to the enclosure! Don't get me wrong, bracing across the enclosure is far more effective, but adding any sort of "truss" between two structures that are at a 90 degree angle will definitely add strength.

i have done millions of test not on 2 boxes side by side but the same box no 45 did a 152.8 added a 1 45 did a 151.9 then took that 45 out and put in a differnt place did a 152.3 then added 45's to every corner did a 150.7 and that is just on the last box i was testing there were many MANY more with simalar results i just can't remeber all the numbers from 16 years of doing this stuff

if you dont want to belive it thats fine YOU TEST it! we have

Hey, its not that I don't think your right, thank you for that description of your test. But the way you did the test it seems like you built the box, and then tested it without 45's, then you added a 45, and got poor results. But by performing the test in that manner you decreased the volume within the enclosure, so isn't it not surprising that you also experienced a reduction in output?

What I want to know is if you added the 45, but also increased the enclosure volume to account for what was taken up by the 45, what would happen. I am guessing not much in a random corner, but in the case of a port corner... I still feel it would have positive results.

I may be testing this in the future!

try it out and let us know but i will tell you this i have tryed with differnt size 45's even tiny ones that would only take .001 percent of the box volume still with negative results

do you really think making a box .001 % bigger would have a differnt outcome?

Nope, I don't think it would, def agree with you there, but if the 45's were so small did they also have a negligible amount of positive effect?