(solved)for unknown reason orion sub putting amp into protect mode.

[Terry Lee]

any way you can wire the amp/sub up outside the car, enar the front( so you can only have a short distance of wire to make sure your not dropping too much)

also try using a different device to send the amp signal, even if its just your ipod or what ever. just remember to turn it down before you turn it on!! that will rule out your head unit doing stupid stuff although i dont think this is the cause because you have said it works outside the box

yes, i have a video posted of it, its on my first post now, i updated that if you havent seen it yet. ive used a multimeter to test voltage and it stays the same constantly. i also have a capactior with digital reading and the sub is barely taking anything from it.

you can see if the headunit is the problem or not by having the rca's disconnected. simple as that.

remote wire wont cause an amp to go into protect. only for it to shut off because of insufficient voltage/current.

you still haven't moved the ground from that stock grounding point that was used for the like 200w stereo that came with the car, have you?

strut tower. frame. frame is better. ground is ideal if its as short as possible. sand all paint and rust off.

ive tried a couple different bolt areas in the back of my car, i have a wire brush i used to take the paint off around it. i made a new video to show you all the connections of my sub, my ground, where my ground goes, and possible areas to ground my car..... i thought using the 4g wire and running it to the negative on my battery would eliminate the fact that it could be a possible grounding issue. maybe its to far though for a ground im not sure.

im even thinking the only possible explanation would be the ground now. i have a drill, and a wire brush, no sander though, so maybe from my video you can pick out a spot for me to drill a ground at.

i appreciate all the help, you fellas are deff some good people.

the video is still processing so you may not be able to watch it yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s__dnLVmAQ

[Guest]

as long as the wire brush takes the paint off, then its fine.

are you SURE that the power and ground wires are securely crimped and every friggin connection is solid? are you sure there are no breaks in the power/ground runs of wire?

you can always take the amp out of the car and hook it up directly to the battery (use a fuseholder lol unless you like to live dangerously) like RCP said.

have you tried replacing the fuse too?

have you measured voltage at the amp when this problem occurs? very important.

[Terry Lee]

as long as the wire brush takes the paint off, then its fine.

are you SURE that the power and ground wires are securely crimped and every friggin connection is solid? are you sure there are no breaks in the power/ground runs of wire?

you can always take the amp out of the car and hook it up directly to the battery (use a fuseholder lol unless you like to live dangerously) like RCP said.

have you tried replacing the fuse too?

have you measured voltage at the amp when this problem occurs? very important.

the wiring kit is brand new, i had 4ga wires running through the car when this was happening before,everything is tightly crimped down.

when you say measure voltage at the amp, you mean the positive and negative ground and battery cable right? whatever the capacitor says is the same thing my multimeter says.

[Guest]

as long as the wire brush takes the paint off, then its fine.

are you SURE that the power and ground wires are securely crimped and every friggin connection is solid? are you sure there are no breaks in the power/ground runs of wire?

you can always take the amp out of the car and hook it up directly to the battery (use a fuseholder lol unless you like to live dangerously) like RCP said.

have you tried replacing the fuse too?

have you measured voltage at the amp when this problem occurs? very important.

the wiring kit is brand new, i had 4ga wires running through the car when this was happening before,everything is tightly crimped down.

when you say measure voltage at the amp, you mean the positive and negative ground and battery cable right? whatever the capacitor says is the same thing my multimeter says.

gotcha. and what would that voltage be? if you posted it before in this thread, i must've missed it.

the cap could even be bad, who knows.

[bbeljefe]

I thought you said you found a short in the speaker wire and were going to replace it? If that's been done then I have a few recommendations after seeing this last video... if not, back up a few steps and make sure the speaker wire is not shorted before looking at other options.

From the video, regarding grounds....

At .41 seconds in the video, you show the existing ground and about 6 inches above it there is a stud and nut that looks to be about a 6mm stud. That would probably be a better ground than the #10?? screw you're currently grounding to. For one thing, the existing ground is probably through one layer of sheet metal only while the stud above it is likely holding something that bears a lot of weight and as such the sheet metal there is probably thicker and multi-layered.

Also, at 1min 30 sec. there is a seat mount bolt about half way up in the right of the screen that looks to be 10mm bolt. That's damn sure a good solid piece of body/frame intersection and would provide a much better grounding point.

As far as the power wire route and the under the hood area....

The jacket on that power wire is going to (at some point) be compromised and will short to ground. When it happens, I hope you're wearing a welding helmet. ;-) In other words, please run it properly. It takes a lot longer to fix a problem than it does to prevent one... and a lot less money to boot.

Second, the power wire connections look good (battery terminal notwithstanding) but what about under the hood grounds? Check battery to frame and battery to engine grounds and make sure they're clean and tight. Also, if you can, run a 0 gauge ground from the alternator to the battery and from the battery to the frame. Having a bad ground could cause your amp to go into protect even while you don't recognize any voltage drop at the amp. especially with that cap in the circuit. And don't depend on the volt meter on the capacitor... it's there to make you think the cap was worth $75.00.

[Yates]

to me it looks like you only took the top coat off looks like its the primer when you sanded it you didn't need to go that wide just were the ring terminals sits over on the metal.

that amp you won't be getting 1000w rms and also if you want to have the capacitor wire it to the amp like this

not how you have got it you are supposed to have two separate grounds it would be easier to just get rid of it

[Terry Lee]

as long as the wire brush takes the paint off, then its fine.

are you SURE that the power and ground wires are securely crimped and every friggin connection is solid? are you sure there are no breaks in the power/ground runs of wire?

you can always take the amp out of the car and hook it up directly to the battery (use a fuseholder lol unless you like to live dangerously) like RCP said.

have you tried replacing the fuse too?

have you measured voltage at the amp when this problem occurs? very important.

the wiring kit is brand new, i had 4ga wires running through the car when this was happening before,everything is tightly crimped down.

when you say measure voltage at the amp, you mean the positive and negative ground and battery cable right? whatever the capacitor says is the same thing my multimeter says.

gotcha. and what would that voltage be? if you posted it before in this thread, i must've missed it.

the cap could even be bad, who knows.

13.7 all around.

I thought you said you found a short in the speaker wire and were going to replace it? If that's been done then I have a few recommendations after seeing this last video... if not, back up a few steps and make sure the speaker wire is not shorted before looking at other options.

From the video, regarding grounds....

At .41 seconds in the video, you show the existing ground and about 6 inches above it there is a stud and nut that looks to be about a 6mm stud. That would probably be a better ground than the #10?? screw you're currently grounding to. For one thing, the existing ground is probably through one layer of sheet metal only while the stud above it is likely holding something that bears a lot of weight and as such the sheet metal there is probably thicker and multi-layered.

Also, at 1min 30 sec. there is a seat mount bolt about half way up in the right of the screen that looks to be 10mm bolt. That's damn sure a good solid piece of body/frame intersection and would provide a much better grounding point.

As far as the power wire route and the under the hood area....

The jacket on that power wire is going to (at some point) be compromised and will short to ground. When it happens, I hope you're wearing a welding helmet. ;-) In other words, please run it properly. It takes a lot longer to fix a problem than it does to prevent one... and a lot less money to boot.

Second, the power wire connections look good (battery terminal notwithstanding) but what about under the hood grounds? Check battery to frame and battery to engine grounds and make sure they're clean and tight. Also, if you can, run a 0 gauge ground from the alternator to the battery and from the battery to the frame. Having a bad ground could cause your amp to go into protect even while you don't recognize any voltage drop at the amp. especially with that cap in the circuit. And don't depend on the volt meter on the capacitor... it's there to make you think the cap was worth $75.00.

you say the jacket on the power wire will be compromised. where are you referring to? i would love to know that. ill look at everything else you say as well.

to me it looks like you only took the top coat off looks like its the primer when you sanded it you didn't need to go that wide just were the ring terminals sits over on the metal.

that amp you won't be getting 1000w rms and also if you want to have the capacitor wire it to the amp like this

not how you have got it you are supposed to have two separate grounds it would be easier to just get rid of it

yea i figured it might help some.... when my friend had this thing in his car, he had a battery meter on his dash, and the battery would basically go down to 0, i dont want to kill my car, and figured the capacitor may help some untill i feel like spending enough money on a battery cell. also i didnt know they needed 2 seperate grounds, good to know. thanks.

also as an update, i hooked up the sub directly to my battery, positive, negative etc, sitting right there next to the battery. and the same thing happens.

when i used it from the other vehicle i didnt actually take my sub out of my trunk, i just used a long speaker wire, aprox 15 feet. and it was 18g wire, so i could tell it wasnt bumping my sub very hard, probably wasnt enough to get to the sub from the small wire and the distance to make the sub do what it continues to do... i deff dont think its a ground problem anymore. i probably had the settings to high cuz i didnt know what i was doing and damaged the speaker in some way.

[bbeljefe]

From what I could see of it, you've got the power wire wedged between the fender and the firewall. There is flex there when the car hits bumps, etc and sooner or later, the jacket stands a good chance of being rubbed through. I don't know how it gets from there to the cabin of the car but if you didn't take any precautions where I could see, I have to assume you took none where I can't see. So I can't really tell you where it's going to be compromised... I can only tell you that routing sets you up for trouble.

You said the speaker worked with your friend's amp. Well then, it isn't the speaker.... that you used 18 gauge wire is irrelevant. Small wire will carry a lot more current than it's rated for, it's just that it won't do it for very long. That said, I think your woofer is fine and your amps are toast. But before I condemned them, I would get the cap out of the circuit and see how things work, just to prove it's not a problem. And... get a better ground for the amp, as mentioned above.

This is why I didn't want to jump from checking speaker wires to showing you how to set the gains. Troubleshooting is about proof. You have to start at one and and prove one thing at a time until you find something you can't prove... and then you've found the (or at least one of them) problem. When you jump from grounds to speakers to amps to grounds again to power wires, et al, you invariably jump over the problem and often create new ones in the process.

EDIT: I just had a thought I'll share with you. If it were my car and I were you, I'd rip all that shit out and start over from scratch. I'd remove the amp wire, inspect it for damage and then re-install it properly if I found no problems with it. Same with all the grounds and the speaker box.

Tomorrow is Saturday and if you don't have to work, there's plenty of time to do that instead of watching the boob toob or chasing ass. If you want your system to be right, that is. :-)

[Terry Lee]

From what I could see of it, you've got the power wire wedged between the fender and the firewall. There is flex there when the car hits bumps, etc and sooner or later, the jacket stands a good chance of being rubbed through. I don't know how it gets from there to the cabin of the car but if you didn't take any precautions where I could see, I have to assume you took none where I can't see. So I can't really tell you where it's going to be compromised... I can only tell you that routing sets you up for trouble.

You said the speaker worked with your friend's amp. Well then, it isn't the speaker.... that you used 18 gauge wire is irrelevant. Small wire will carry a lot more current than it's rated for, it's just that it won't do it for very long. That said, I think your woofer is fine and your amps are toast. But before I condemned them, I would get the cap out of the circuit and see how things work, just to prove it's not a problem. And... get a better ground for the amp, as mentioned above.

This is why I didn't want to jump from checking speaker wires to showing you how to set the gains. Troubleshooting is about proof. You have to start at one and and prove one thing at a time until you find something you can't prove... and then you've found the (or at least one of them) problem. When you jump from grounds to speakers to amps to grounds again to power wires, et al, you invariably jump over the problem and often create new ones in the process.

EDIT: I just had a thought I'll share with you. If it were my car and I were you, I'd rip all that shit out and start over from scratch. I'd remove the amp wire, inspect it for damage and then re-install it properly if I found no problems with it. Same with all the grounds and the speaker box.

Tomorrow is Saturday and if you don't have to work, there's plenty of time to do that instead of watching the boob toob or chasing ass. If you want your system to be right, that is. :-)

yes yess. you are right, i have a 4 day weekend, hoorah lmao. i would preferably not want to pull everything out to put it back in and see there is still a problem. the piece of ass im chasing at the moment works anyways, so i have boring days ahead of me. including today. i litterally just put this power cord in not even a week ago, and to diagram how i have it set up, cuz you make it sound like i could have errors elsewhere, i show it in my video, how i have it running up the outside of my car sort of inbetween the piece of metal of my hood, then i run it along the side of my car near under the plastic, but under the carpet cuz the wire is to big for the plastic to snap back on.... the capacitor could be a problem, im not sure though, even when i hooked it straight up to my battery i still had the capacitor connected. other than that, considering how i hooked it up with my 4g cable straight to the battery, i dont see how it could possibly be my power cords, im at a loss on why that could be. i know it worked when i first got it, it took about a week or so until it started acting retarded, but i had the settings way to high on the amp i know now....

i would like it to be something easy i can fix, i dont want to spend 160$ on this part http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_27865_Orion_HCCA102CK.aspx

the 4 ohm, is about 20$ cheaper, i dont know why it would make a difference, if it doesnt hit as hard or what. i was somewhat looking into that

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_27866_Orion_HCCA104CK.aspx?utm_source=pricegrabber_shopping&utm_medium=Product_Feed&utm_campaign=pricegrabber_shopping_Price_Comparison

and i can return it if that is indeed not the problem

so im hoping something i do can fix it. i would love a cheap solution.

[Terry Lee]

so i take the capacitor off, and hook everything up as normal, as im hooking the ground wire up, sparks and a blown fuse on the amp, i replace the fuse and try again, same thing, i check all my connections, everything is solid.... unconnect and reconnect all my amp cables, same thing, but i just tap it slightly see a spark and pull it away b4 i eat through fuses.... so whatever this is is probably whats been causing this problem.

now to figure out wtf.