No Distortion with Gain at full tilt...

[meade916]

And you're sure it wasn't the songs you were playing that were clipped? Gains could be set clean as a whistle but if you start with a dirty song that clipping just gets amplified.

And I really don't see the problem with him making sure his signal is clean from his deck with a 0db tone at 25 volume

Then setting his amp gain when the deck is set to 25 volume and set it with a -5 dB tone.

If someone can tell me how this would lead to distortion I would love to learn because I've set my friends system like this since his stock speakers couldn't handle >30 volume out of 38. And I definitely don't want him to blow his shit and blame me.

if your deck goes up to 47 out of 50 (for example) and you think its good to have your reference point "25".....then sure, you can do that. The thing is, now you have go turn the gains on the amps up higher to make up for that loss of voltage. More gain = more noise. I would rather feed my amps as much clean voltage as possible, and have my gains barely notched up a hair, then have them up 3/4 of the way (or more) to make up for it.

also, you setting someones system at a reference of 25, out of 50, will work fine (a bit noisy possibly), but what is going to happen as soon as your boy decides a song isn't bumpin hard enough for him one night while riding with the lady's? he is gonna turn that shit up to 35. Well instead of 35 being well within the limits, now it is full blown distortion. Not good. Make sense yet?

Steve, I set his amp with the DD-1 with the volume at 25 on track 7, which is the -15db 40hz tone. After about 30 minutes of listening at 23, the amp was so hot I could've cooked an egg on it, but it never went into protect or anything. His ground is super solid, and zero gauge throughout the car even though it's only a 1300 watt amp. I'm pretty sure the gain up 3/4 or more was causing this, plus whatever song we were playing. The thing was SLAMMING and was crystal clear, louder than I had ever heard it, but the amp was taking a beating.

go back and re-do it. don't use that -15 track. Let him get that same BASS he is looking for with the volume knob and not the gain screw.

Roger that. Would you recommend the -10DB track for the sub? Thanks again man. Hope some people learned a little from this as it could've cost us a sub and/or an amp. Always follow the instructions and don't go rogue like I did!

-10 db should be good on your woofer IF the amps output matches the subs power handling capability. Not just the rating on the side of the box. That PLUS your tuning, box size, port size, etc. For the most part though if your sub and amp match in rated power capability, -10 is ok. A sub can handle more distortion then a tweeter can so if it ends up seeing some, due to a bad song or some other reason, it should be ok. But that is where being a responsible owner comes into play. If they are getting hot and smelly, back off some.

[b0r]

And you're sure it wasn't the songs you were playing that were clipped? Gains could be set clean as a whistle but if you start with a dirty song that clipping just gets amplified.

And I really don't see the problem with him making sure his signal is clean from his deck with a 0db tone at 25 volume

Then setting his amp gain when the deck is set to 25 volume and set it with a -5 dB tone.

If someone can tell me how this would lead to distortion I would love to learn because I've set my friends system like this since his stock speakers couldn't handle >30 volume out of 38. And I definitely don't want him to blow his shit and blame me.

if your deck goes up to 47 out of 50 (for example) and you think its good to have your reference point "25".....then sure, you can do that. The thing is, now you have go turn the gains on the amps up higher to make up for that loss of voltage. More gain = more noise. I would rather feed my amps as much clean voltage as possible, and have my gains barely notched up a hair, then have them up 3/4 of the way (or more) to make up for it.

also, you setting someones system at a reference of 25, out of 50, will work fine (a bit noisy possibly), but what is going to happen as soon as your boy decides a song isn't bumpin hard enough for him one night while riding with the lady's? he is gonna turn that shit up to 35. Well instead of 35 being well within the limits, now it is full blown distortion. Not good. Make sense yet?

Steve, I set his amp with the DD-1 with the volume at 25 on track 7, which is the -15db 40hz tone. After about 30 minutes of listening at 23, the amp was so hot I could've cooked an egg on it, but it never went into protect or anything. His ground is super solid, and zero gauge throughout the car even though it's only a 1300 watt amp. I'm pretty sure the gain up 3/4 or more was causing this, plus whatever song we were playing. The thing was SLAMMING and was crystal clear, louder than I had ever heard it, but the amp was taking a beating.

go back and re-do it. don't use that -15 track. Let him get that same BASS he is looking for with the volume knob and not the gain screw.

Roger that. Would you recommend the -10DB track for the sub? Thanks again man. Hope some people learned a little from this as it could've cost us a sub and/or an amp. Always follow the instructions and don't go rogue like I did!

-10 db should be good on your woofer IF the amps output matches the subs power handling capability. Not just the rating on the side of the box. That PLUS your tuning, box size, port size, etc. For the most part though if your sub and amp match in rated power capability, -10 is ok. A sub can handle more distortion then a tweeter can so if it ends up seeing some, due to a bad song or some other reason, it should be ok. But that is where being a responsible owner comes into play. If they are getting hot and smelly, back off some.

I'll have an Fi BL 15 and a Rockford T1000-1bdCP (I'd be lying if I said I didn't buy the amp because you rock them in a 40,000 watt system). The birth sheet on the T1000 is 1604 watts at 1 ohm. The sub can handle 1500W RMS, but I've seen videos of people raping the BL with 2k all day, so I'm sure my measly 1600 watts won't be a problem. Besides, I'm not sure I'll be at max volume or that my electrical can 100% maintain 1600 so I'll be feeding it a solid 1300 or so of clean power.

[meade916]

I like to think I'll be able to understand all that at some point, maybe after re reading it a couple times. But it's a little over my head at the moment.

Tuning frankly scares the shit out of me!! But I still want to, and need to, learn how to do it for my own good as well as my system components.

Definitely! My new sub/amp/box cost me $1,100, and while that's a far cry from the tens of thousands in Steve's truck, I appreciate my setup as much as he appreciates his own, and I worked hard for my $2k total setup. Money isn't a problem, I'd just rather buy my kids something instead of a new Sub because I didn't understand something. The information I gained in this thread alone will stick with me forever and we all need to pay it forward to those that don't understand because I am CERTAIN I am not the only one that has attempted this.

this is information that is equally as good for using an O-scope. Except with an O-scope you are looking for clipping. But its the same idea. Same industry standard tracks (40hz / 1000hz), same gain overlaps. So what you are learning now, isn't just me pitching the DD-1, it is info that you can soak in and be a better installer from, even if you use a scope.

[Kyblack76]

I started out, at -5

found out, i was able to go futher..

went -10

love it...

The tool wont put your underware on for you ... butter your bread,.. and wipe your nose.

But.. its all i need to know exactly where to be at....

[Sergeant_Skyrim]

Jesus I was not expecting such an informative thread when I ran across this...although there are some things I'd like to bring up as well. I didn't like the wording of the DD-1 manual saying how -5db was for SQ, -10 for middle, and -15 for louder. I feel like if you're going to be spending this much time and money on a system you need to know the music you're playing. It may not be very practical, but for the most part I scan every song that I slam/demo with through Audacity so that I know the peak dB level of each individual song.

By setting your gain with a track like the -10dB one aren't you potentially boosting any song with bass notes within the 0 to -5dB range by a good 5dB at least? Like Rack City peaks at 29 and 39hz and does so with -1 and -2 dB bass notes. While impractical for the everyday user, wouldn't it be safer and better to set with a 0dB track and then play around with HU settings and stuff like that to adjust for each song individually?

I'm sure not every headunit has it, but the LP filter on my headunit allows me to adjust the dB levels. I can go from -24dB all the way up to +6dB. So say I find my HU max volume is 45/62, and then set my gain with a 0dB track. When I play a song that peaks at -5dB, I can simply adjust that LP to +5dB and essentially match it up perfectly. And I've even did this with my deck, by checking with the -5dB track with the LP set to +5 and it wasn't distorted. Then I checked with a -6dB track I made in .wav format and it did clip.

I'm in no way ranting about anything here, just trying to figure out if this might be a better way to set gains and all for people who do have a feature similar to this on their HU's. If anybody actually takes the time to read this I am interested in discussing it further if you think I've made a mistake somewhere or anything too, but yeah. Tonsssss of good info in this thread and glad I came across it!

[Pro7]

That's if everyone knows the level of every song that they bump haha a little more work than most people do but I guess I still wouldn't trust the head units increments of dbs but if it works for you and you tested it great

Edit: OOOORRRRR that would be a Great implementation of an smd output meter

Edited August 30, 2013 by Pro7

[meade916]

That's if everyone knows the level of every song that they bump haha a little more work than most people do but I guess I still wouldn't trust the head units increments of dbs but if it works for you and you tested it great

Edit: OOOORRRRR that would be a Great implementation of an smd output meter

the SMD OM-1 can be matched to your output of your system, when using a DD-1.....and you will be able to SEE if you push it further then normal. Coming next week. Maybe TOMORROW!

[Sergeant_Skyrim]

That's if everyone knows the level of every song that they bump haha a little more work than most people do but I guess I still wouldn't trust the head units increments of dbs but if it works for you and you tested it great

Edit: OOOORRRRR that would be a Great implementation of an smd output meter

the SMD OM-1 can be matched to your output of your system, when using a DD-1.....and you will be able to SEE if you push it further then normal. Coming next week. Maybe TOMORROW!

I haven't heard of this yet, still recovering from some recent purchases haha. Rent in a few days too xD

Is there any info on it though? Just googled it and saw a few pics, I'm guessing it does exactly what I was tryna say and lets you know the exact db level of bass notes in the song you're listening to? If so then you and D'amore really need to stop taking my damn money! Haha good stuff though Mr. Meade!

[soundstream15]

i use -10db track, i play decaf and i have zero issues....if the song is peaks at lets say 39hz at -2db if its clean then its not gonna matter if gains where set with -5 or -10db tone, i can play a song that is at -8db that is clipped and ill have more issues then playing a song at -3db thats clean. make sense? it does to me so maybe someone else can chime in.

here is a example. regular gorilla zoe-money man, my voltage drops to 12.2 driving

decaf money man, voltage is at 12.9

why? its clean so i have no issues

[soundstream15]

i use -10db track, i play decaf and i have zero issues....if the song is peaks at lets say 39hz at -2db if its clean then its not gonna matter if gains where set with -5 or -10db tone, i can play a song that is at -8db that is clipped and ill have more issues then playing a song at -3db thats clean. make sense? it does to me so maybe someone else can chime in.

here is a example. regular gorilla zoe-money man, my voltage drops to 12.2 driving

decaf money man, voltage is at 12.9

why? its clean so i have no issues