1two3 Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Im stuck between 2 sub's at the moment and I really want to put one of them in a t-line. My main goals here are sq and linearity. I did read the 1\4 wave tutorial and both sub's QTS and qms are under the recommended numbers to sound great. Im not sure how octaves and roll off frequency works here but from what I gather the sub would start rolling off 8hz bellow and above fs. Correct me off I'm wrong. Keep in mind I have a rf amp meaning the ssf is non adjustable (can be turned off though) at 28hz. Sub A: 31hz Sub B: 41hz Which would u use and why? Car: 2000 Honda CRV Battery: XS Power D5100R Alternator: Stock 90A Head Unit: Pioneer DEH-X9500BHS Front Speakers: Alpine Type S Rear Speakers: JBL GTO 628's Wires: All Knu 4g. Soon to be 0g. Big 3 in 0g Volt Meter: SMD VM-1 Amps: Rockford Fosgate T400-2, T1000-1bdCP Subs: 2 SSA XCON 15's Sealed Tint: Privacy glass + 5% in the back and 25% in fronts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nCOMP1337 Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 are you going to do a true 1/4 wave? i am asking because depending on the fs you are going to tune it to, would depend on how large the box will be needed. The lower the Fs, the longer the port will need to be and in turn the larger the box will be. Therefore depending on your application and where it is going, you may not be able to do a proper t line for a lower frequency. I like lower tuning myself, but I would rather know more info about both subs before giving a proper answer, basing it simply of what Fs it has isnt enough for me personally, cause id want to know exactly what the other specs are, and whether its quality built, or made for home, or pro audio, or usual spl stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1two3 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 are you going to do a true 1/4 wave? i am asking because depending on the fs you are going to tune it to, would depend on how large the box will be needed. The lower the Fs, the longer the port will need to be and in turn the larger the box will be. Therefore depending on your application and where it is going, you may not be able to do a proper t line for a lower frequency. I like lower tuning myself, but I would rather know more info about both subs before giving a proper answer, basing it simply of what Fs it has isnt enough for me personally, cause id want to know exactly what the other specs are, and whether its quality built, or made for home, or pro audio, or usual spl stuff. good point this will be in the trunk of my car and mainly for sq/spl. probably gonna run it at 4ohm. i now have a third option to throw into the mix: Sub A: SSA ICON 10 Specifications Coil(s) Terminals Cone Suspension Motor Former Lead Wires Hand Crafted in Fs Qms Qes Qts Mms Sd Vas Bl Spl Xmax Wattage Displacement 10" ICON D1/D2 3" wide, 4 layer, copper coils Push terminals Pulp Fiber Cone Dual stiff progressive spiders FEA optimized motor 3" Anodized alum. former Triple Sandwiched Leads USA 31.1 Hz 5.5 0.41 0.38 181 g 310 cm^2 19.1 l 11.7 / 17.2 TM 83.4 1W/1m 21mm 1250wRMS 0.12cuft SUB B: SOUNDQUBED HDC3.0 10 FS: 41HZ VAS: 9.168Ltr XMAX: 36 MM QMS: 6.999 QES:.374 QTS:0.355 SENSITIVITY: 84.439 COIL DIAMETER: 3.0" COIL LENGTH: 2.135 USABLE THROW: 3.0" SUB C: FI Q 10 DUAL 1 | DUAL 2 Fs: 34.1 Hz | 34.0 Hz Re: 0.70 Ohms/coil | 1.4 Ohms/coil Qms: 7.31 | 7.38 Qes: .37 | .37 Qts: .36 | .36 Mms: 230g | 2235g Cms: .88mm/N | .88mm/N Sd: 310cm^2 | 310cm^2 Vas: 11.8 l | 11.8 l Spl: 83.3dB 1W/1m | 83.2dB 1W/1m Bl: 13.9 N/A | 19.6 N/A Xmax: 28mm Rms: 1500W Sealed box: .2-.5 cuft HQTS Ported box: .5-1.2 cuft @ 28-33Hz Sub OD: 11.000” Cut ID: 9.250” Mounting depth: 6.500” Displacement: 0.12cuft i would deffinatly try my best to do a true 1/4 wave length. this would include 45s in all applicable corners Car: 2000 Honda CRV Battery: XS Power D5100R Alternator: Stock 90A Head Unit: Pioneer DEH-X9500BHS Front Speakers: Alpine Type S Rear Speakers: JBL GTO 628's Wires: All Knu 4g. Soon to be 0g. Big 3 in 0g Volt Meter: SMD VM-1 Amps: Rockford Fosgate T400-2, T1000-1bdCP Subs: 2 SSA XCON 15's Sealed Tint: Privacy glass + 5% in the back and 25% in fronts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortezDTV Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 It really doesn't matter too much if u tune above Fs of the driver Just don't tune it below Fs of the driver SCSB Santa Cruz Speaker Box Build logs: Daily Driver Lemon Marquis 2 american bass 750.1s 350.4 on 14 focal 6.5s sq 945 on 4 hertz tweeters Mystery subs http://www.stevemead...__fromsearch__1 The Mustang 'dubbed' Shirley the project from bullet holes to badass http://www.stevemead...cond-skin-time/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbeljefe Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 You can tune at any frequency you like. The line in my truck now is tuned at 29Hz and Sundown's published Fs for the Zv3s (that were in it) is 33.4. In that line, I ran the subwoofer amps with no infrasonic filtering and at ~double rated power and they slammed. They never unloaded, never got so much as warm and they played loud as hell at least an octave below Fs. What I've found with ¼ waves is that you need a very low compliance sub if you're going to run a lot of power on it (them), because a line is not too different from free air in that there is very little acoustical suspension to keep xmech under control. Beyond that, I've used drivers with lower than recommended Qms and higher than recommended Qts with success. The only subs that haven't performed well are high compliance subs and when I say not performed well I mean that they didn't handle being overpowered... not that they didn't sound great. As for octaves, roll off would only begin 8 Hz below Fs if Fs were 16, given your scenario. And an octave above 16 is 32 so 8 Hz below and above any frequency cannot both be one octave. In simple terms, if you tuned a line to the Soundqubed's 41Hz Fs, roll off would begin at ~20.5 Hz on the bottom and 42 Hz on the top. But then, I haven't seen an accurate graph on a ¼ wave (not saying there are none) so I can't say with confidence that they actually roll off at an octave above and below Fb consistently. I just built a line for two AB 6.54s and tuned it about 10Hz below driver Fs and it definitely hits F3 above an octave below tuning. I'm thinking this is because of the frequency response of the subs though and not a characteristic of transmission lines. In the next few weeks I plan to build another one tuned exactly to Fs so I can see how it performs vs. the first one... and so I'll know what to expect on some bigger t-line builds I have upcoming. This is also the first one I've done an impedance sweep on and it either reported some odd numbers or t-lines just look funny on paper, lol. Fs was reported at 70Hz and the two impedance peaks were at (iirc) ~48 & 55, with a dip right between them. I intend to also sweep the one I have for an SA-15 to see if it reports odd numbers and, when I get to the point of rebuilding the truck I'll sweep that one too. Facebook: facebook.com/audioanarchyllc Instagram: audioanarchyllc Youtube: youtube.com/bbeljefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Im stuck between 2 sub's at the moment and I really want to put one of them in a t-line. My main goals here are sq and linearity. I did read the 1\4 wave tutorial and both sub's QTS and qms are under the recommended numbers to sound great. Im not sure how octaves and roll off frequency works here but from what I gather the sub would start rolling off 8hz bellow and above fs. Correct me off I'm wrong. Keep in mind I have a rf amp meaning the ssf is non adjustable (can be turned off though) at 28hz. Sub A: 31hz Sub B: 41hz Which would u use and why? Why do you think you actually need a T-line enclosure ??? With you goals, I would go with a simple flat response, ported and tuned enclosure and find a more suitable "musical" sub driver(s) ... Note: not saying that is anything wrong with the drivers you listed ... but just thinking that a more "oriented" driver to your goals might would work better ... Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1two3 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Im stuck between 2 sub's at the moment and I really want to put one of them in a t-line. My main goals here are sq and linearity. I did read the 1\4 wave tutorial and both sub's QTS and qms are under the recommended numbers to sound great. Im not sure how octaves and roll off frequency works here but from what I gather the sub would start rolling off 8hz bellow and above fs. Correct me off I'm wrong. Keep in mind I have a rf amp meaning the ssf is non adjustable (can be turned off though) at 28hz. Sub A: 31hz Sub B: 41hz Which would u use and why? Why do you think you actually need a T-line enclosure ??? With you goals, I would go with a simple flat response, ported and tuned enclosure and find a more suitable "musical" sub driver(s) ...Note: not saying that is anything wrong with the drivers you listed ... but just thinking that a more "oriented" driver to your goals might would work better ... i would really love to try one, i never heard or seen one in person so id like to experiment. what are some more sutable musical drivers you would recomend? what are characteristics to look for (qms qts? ect?) Car: 2000 Honda CRV Battery: XS Power D5100R Alternator: Stock 90A Head Unit: Pioneer DEH-X9500BHS Front Speakers: Alpine Type S Rear Speakers: JBL GTO 628's Wires: All Knu 4g. Soon to be 0g. Big 3 in 0g Volt Meter: SMD VM-1 Amps: Rockford Fosgate T400-2, T1000-1bdCP Subs: 2 SSA XCON 15's Sealed Tint: Privacy glass + 5% in the back and 25% in fronts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1two3 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 It really doesn't matter too much if u tune above Fs of the driver Just don't tune it below Fs of the driver what happens if u tune below? Car: 2000 Honda CRV Battery: XS Power D5100R Alternator: Stock 90A Head Unit: Pioneer DEH-X9500BHS Front Speakers: Alpine Type S Rear Speakers: JBL GTO 628's Wires: All Knu 4g. Soon to be 0g. Big 3 in 0g Volt Meter: SMD VM-1 Amps: Rockford Fosgate T400-2, T1000-1bdCP Subs: 2 SSA XCON 15's Sealed Tint: Privacy glass + 5% in the back and 25% in fronts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neckbeard Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 It really doesn't matter too much if u tune above Fs of the driver Just don't tune it below Fs of the driver what happens if u tune below? Nothing. The TS specs of a sub (including Fs) Will change when the sub is worn in. Therefore, the Fs of the subs will lower when they are worn in compared to a fresh sub,and the will play lower. Make sense? Build log, Super slow!!: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/168096-slow-neckbeards-1970-opel-gt/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1two3 Posted December 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 You can tune at any frequency you like. The line in my truck now is tuned at 29Hz and Sundown's published Fs for the Zv3s (that were in it) is 33.4. In that line, I ran the subwoofer amps with no infrasonic filtering and at ~double rated power and they slammed. They never unloaded, never got so much as warm and they played loud as hell at least an octave below Fs. What I've found with ¼ waves is that you need a very low compliance sub if you're going to run a lot of power on it (them), because a line is not too different from free air in that there is very little acoustical suspension to keep xmech under control. Beyond that, I've used drivers with lower than recommended Qms and higher than recommended Qts with success. The only subs that haven't performed well are high compliance subs and when I say not performed well I mean that they didn't handle being overpowered... not that they didn't sound great. As for octaves, roll off would only begin 8 Hz below Fs if Fs were 16, given your scenario. And an octave above 16 is 32 so 8 Hz below and above any frequency cannot both be one octave. In simple terms, if you tuned a line to the Soundqubed's 41Hz Fs, roll off would begin at ~20.5 Hz on the bottom and 42 Hz on the top. But then, I haven't seen an accurate graph on a ¼ wave (not saying there are none) so I can't say with confidence that they actually roll off at an octave above and below Fb consistently. I just built a line for two AB 6.54s and tuned it about 10Hz below driver Fs and it definitely hits F3 above an octave below tuning. I'm thinking this is because of the frequency response of the subs though and not a characteristic of transmission lines. In the next few weeks I plan to build another one tuned exactly to Fs so I can see how it performs vs. the first one... and so I'll know what to expect on some bigger t-line builds I have upcoming. This is also the first one I've done an impedance sweep on and it either reported some odd numbers or t-lines just look funny on paper, lol. Fs was reported at 70Hz and the two impedance peaks were at (iirc) ~48 & 55, with a dip right between them. I intend to also sweep the one I have for an SA-15 to see if it reports odd numbers and, when I get to the point of rebuilding the truck I'll sweep that one too. you are my hero man. i just bought an xcon 10" on black friday so im gonna be doing a t-line for that. i just got a question about something you said. what is a low or high compliance sub? im gonna be running 800-1400w to this bad boy with an rms of 1750 so i dont think that would be an issue either way but id like to know Car: 2000 Honda CRV Battery: XS Power D5100R Alternator: Stock 90A Head Unit: Pioneer DEH-X9500BHS Front Speakers: Alpine Type S Rear Speakers: JBL GTO 628's Wires: All Knu 4g. Soon to be 0g. Big 3 in 0g Volt Meter: SMD VM-1 Amps: Rockford Fosgate T400-2, T1000-1bdCP Subs: 2 SSA XCON 15's Sealed Tint: Privacy glass + 5% in the back and 25% in fronts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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