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Help needed with my DC Audio system - Level 6 18", 5K, Limitless, etc.


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Hey guys,

 

I'm not sure if these forums are completely dead, but I'm going to give this a go.  I'm looking for help.  Here is a rundown of my setup:

 

2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew Cab Sport

Big 4, Singer 300A alternator, Limitless Lithium 6K, all 2/0 wiring, solid grounds

OEM head unit w/ PAC AmpPRO 6-channel integration/RCA outs

DC 5K and DC 90.4

JL Audio 3 way separates up front, JL audio co-axials in rear

DC Audio Level 6 18" in a Kerf Customs 5.5' cubic foot box tuned to 34hz (dual 2 ohm in parallel for 1 ohm mono load)

Doing 148.2 on the dash at 33-34hz

 

I recently started playing with an SMD AMM-1.  Prior to the AMM-1, I was using a clamp meter and multi-meter to get an approximate power level going to the sub and figured it was around 1,500 watts which I wasn't thrilled with.

 

Now, with the AMM-1, it's even worse because of the Power Factor calculation.  At the end of the day, I'm seeing around 800 watts and *I think* 7-8 ohms at 40hz.  At 60hz, I saw 2,500 watts at about 2 ohms.  At 30-35 hz, I'm literally maxing out at 7-800 watts before clipping.  Something is not adding up.  I watched for voltage at the Limitless 6K, and starting voltage was around 14.2, and during the run, the lowest I could get it to drop to was somewhere in the low 12's.  This was also surprising to see the Limitless drop to low 12's on voltage when it's rated for 6k+ watts, and it was happening during 7-800 watt runs.

 

The system is pretty loud and gets violent in the cabin at 33-34hz, but I'm really wondering if I'm leaving *a lot* on the table by missing something huge.  These numbers aren't adding up to me and figured someone here may be able to help me troubleshoot?  Thanks so much in advance!

 

System.jpg

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54 minutes ago, HybridNistico said:

Hey guys,

 

I'm not sure if these forums are completely dead, but I'm going to give this a go.  I'm looking for help.  Here is a rundown of my setup:

 

2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew Cab Sport

Big 4, Singer 300A alternator, Limitless Lithium 6K, all 2/0 wiring, solid grounds

OEM head unit w/ PAC AmpPRO 6-channel integration/RCA outs

DC 5K and DC 90.4

JL Audio 3 way separates up front, JL audio co-axials in rear

DC Audio Level 6 18" in a Kerf Customs 5.5' cubic foot box tuned to 34hz (dual 2 ohm in parallel for 1 ohm mono load)

Doing 148.2 on the dash at 33-34hz

 

I recently started playing with an SMD AMM-1.  Prior to the AMM-1, I was using a clamp meter and multi-meter to get an approximate power level going to the sub and figured it was around 1,500 watts which I wasn't thrilled with.

 

Now, with the AMM-1, it's even worse because of the Power Factor calculation.  At the end of the day, I'm seeing around 800 watts and *I think* 7-8 ohms at 40hz.  At 60hz, I saw 2,500 watts at about 2 ohms.  At 30-35 hz, I'm literally maxing out at 7-800 watts before clipping.  Something is not adding up.  I watched for voltage at the Limitless 6K, and starting voltage was around 14.2, and during the run, the lowest I could get it to drop to was somewhere in the low 12's.  This was also surprising to see the Limitless drop to low 12's on voltage when it's rated for 6k+ watts, and it was happening during 7-800 watt runs.

 

The system is pretty loud and gets violent in the cabin at 33-34hz, but I'm really wondering if I'm leaving *a lot* on the table by missing something huge.  These numbers aren't adding up to me and figured someone here may be able to help me troubleshoot?  Thanks so much in advance!

 

System.jpg

I'll tell you this, just because that's what the battery says is rated for "6k", that's considering everything is perfect. Perfect RPM's at the alternator, perfect amount of amps going into the battery, all that. 

Dropping into the 12's, yeah, you're leaving a little bit on the table, though if you're rising to 7-8 ohms, and still pushing around 800 watts, it's rated for 900 watts at 4 ohm. I can't find an amp dyno test on YouTube where they did a 4 ohm test at 14.7 ish volts. (Just to kind of guesstimate). I would think at 14 at 8 ohm, you should see about 1000 or so. 

Do you compete? Or is this just a musical system in your daily driver?

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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52 minutes ago, Dafaseles said:

I'll tell you this, just because that's what the battery says is rated for "6k", that's considering everything is perfect. Perfect RPM's at the alternator, perfect amount of amps going into the battery, all that. 

Dropping into the 12's, yeah, you're leaving a little bit on the table, though if you're rising to 7-8 ohms, and still pushing around 800 watts, it's rated for 900 watts at 4 ohm. I can't find an amp dyno test on YouTube where they did a 4 ohm test at 14.7 ish volts. (Just to kind of guesstimate). I would think at 14 at 8 ohm, you should see about 1000 or so. 

Do you compete? Or is this just a musical system in your daily driver?

 

Thanks so much for your reply.  This is just a musical system in my daily driver.  Will do some additional testing with results to be posted here soon, but disheartened to be able to see 2,500 watts at 60hz (which I never play) and then such low numbers at 40hz and lower (which is what I primarily play).  I hear what you're saying about the Cyber 6K, but I feel like I'd be surprised to see much of a difference by going to a Cyber 12K or by adding an additional 6K.  I also forgot to mention that the truck is running on an AGM under the hood and I'm using a Stinger isolator to keep the batteries separate during non-use.

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19 minutes ago, HybridNistico said:

 

Thanks so much for your reply.  This is just a musical system in my daily driver.  Will do some additional testing with results to be posted here soon, but disheartened to be able to see 2,500 watts at 60hz (which I never play) and then such low numbers at 40hz and lower (which is what I primarily play).  I hear what you're saying about the Cyber 6K, but I feel like I'd be surprised to see much of a difference by going to a Cyber 12K or by adding an additional 6K.  I also forgot to mention that the truck is running on an AGM under the hood and I'm using a Stinger isolator to keep the batteries separate during non-use.

The isolator should do is job. While the truck is on, those 2 batteries are about the same voltage, so that shouldn't be an issue. 

You also have to think about your truck using the alternator. If you've got a truck that has this gadget and that doodad, it needs amperage from the alternator as well. Say your truck needs 60 amps.... well that brings you down to 240 amps available at whatever RPM they rated the alternator at. (I think it's usually between 2300 and 2500 RPM's, cold,  but I could be mistaken). Still much more than your stock alternator, but it's one of those little things people forget to factor in. 

Also, I'm not super familiar with dodge trucks, but it's there any type of voltage regulator on the truck? That could definitely cause a charging issue as well. I had that problem on my old system in my truck because the stereo shop didn't know how to ground it properly. My batteries where always dead. (That's why this upgrade, I'm doing it myself🤣 that shop screwed me because I didn't have the time to do it myself. But l big mistake).

 

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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4 hours ago, HybridNistico said:

Hey guys,

 

I'm not sure if these forums are completely dead, but I'm going to give this a go.  I'm looking for help.  Here is a rundown of my setup:

 

2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew Cab Sport

Big 4, Singer 300A alternator, Limitless Lithium 6K, all 2/0 wiring, solid grounds

OEM head unit w/ PAC AmpPRO 6-channel integration/RCA outs

DC 5K and DC 90.4

JL Audio 3 way separates up front, JL audio co-axials in rear

DC Audio Level 6 18" in a Kerf Customs 5.5' cubic foot box tuned to 34hz (dual 2 ohm in parallel for 1 ohm mono load)

Doing 148.2 on the dash at 33-34hz

 

I recently started playing with an SMD AMM-1.  Prior to the AMM-1, I was using a clamp meter and multi-meter to get an approximate power level going to the sub and figured it was around 1,500 watts which I wasn't thrilled with.

 

Now, with the AMM-1, it's even worse because of the Power Factor calculation.  At the end of the day, I'm seeing around 800 watts and *I think* 7-8 ohms at 40hz.  At 60hz, I saw 2,500 watts at about 2 ohms.  At 30-35 hz, I'm literally maxing out at 7-800 watts before clipping.  Something is not adding up.  I watched for voltage at the Limitless 6K, and starting voltage was around 14.2, and during the run, the lowest I could get it to drop to was somewhere in the low 12's.  This was also surprising to see the Limitless drop to low 12's on voltage when it's rated for 6k+ watts, and it was happening during 7-800 watt runs.

 

The system is pretty loud and gets violent in the cabin at 33-34hz, but I'm really wondering if I'm leaving *a lot* on the table by missing something huge.  These numbers aren't adding up to me and figured someone here may be able to help me troubleshoot?  Thanks so much in advance!

 

System.jpg

I agree something isn't addiing up. I'm surprised that your impedance rise goes up to 4 ohms or so on a 1 ohm load. I was running 6k rms (rated power not AMM-1) at 2 ohm load and at or close to tuning frequency was at 5.2 ohms (6k rms amp rating down to 2,800 watts on the subs with the AMM-1). In my testing of a few systems that I've set up for myself and a couple that I've helped tune I've never had impedance rise go that high (except maybe at some lower volumes and higher frequencies). 

 

One thing you could check out is the settings on your amp (if if you're running it through a DSP). I was also running a taramps smart 3 and even with some minor adjustments to the low pass filter etc it made a big difference on low end performance, rms output and db's.

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12 hours ago, CstrokerV said:

Drop the isolator see if that helps voltage drop.. also try a bank of supercaps  

 

Thanks for your suggestion!  If I do more testing and see significant voltage drop, I will try bypassing the isolator.  The more and more I read and research, impedance/box rise is inevitable, and the best way to combat it is usually to use an amp that's "overbuilt" for the subwoofer setup... e.g. putting perhaps a 7.5 or 10k on my single 18".  Maybe this will prompt an "upgrade", lol.  I've also started to research amplifiers that put out a broader range of power at 1, 2, 4 ohms etc. vs. the Korean amps that peak hard at 1 ohm.

 

Lou

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Different things can effect impedance rise including things in your car.. think I read box shape also cant remember though… but the isolator can be causing part of the voltage drop… yeah about buying bigger amps I don’t do it at the moment maybe if I ever get a project car again lol

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