Jump to content

Recommended Posts

so guys, seeking your advise or even maybe whoever else is out there wanting to know this experience. 

A question on mids and highs here. 

Whats being used...rockford fosgate prime r2 500.4. 75x 4 @4ohm 150x 2 bridged (set for no clip)

Pair of Resilient sounds ec65c rated 75rms 4ohm

Pair of Sky high el68 rated 250rms 8ohm. So i've been using these mids separately (specs attached) with the es65c wired an stereo and giving rated 75rms and sometimes the el68 bridged giving 150rms each on the rockford.

What i've noticed is the es65c (midbass/midrange cut at 100hz 24db slope) has a very flat response and sounds pleasing to the ear but lacks that loudness and subwoofer bass easily covers them, whereas the el68(mid range, cut at 160hz 24db slope) loudness increase only a little given double power, but sound quality dropped alot because of bridging, some tones hurt your ear but it lacks midbass. I tried eqing these an there so hard to tame but they are crisp and sometimes clean.

 

Your thoughts? Which will you choose? Tips to get loud,clean tonal sound from either or. The goal is a daily system, clean yet impressive for a small amount. Am planning to sell the pair that i will not use.

 

Thanks

20220108_183505.jpg

20220108_155944.jpg

Screenshot_20211225-134241_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20211007-171412_Gallery.jpg

Edited by Jeremy009
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jeremy009 said:

so guys, seeking your advise or even maybe whoever else is out there wanting to know this experience. 

A question on mids and highs here. 

Whats being used...rockford fosgate prime r2 500.4. 75x 4 @4ohm 150x 2 bridged (set for no clip)

Pair of Resilient sounds ec65c rated 75rms 4ohm

Pair of Sky high el68 rated 250rms 8ohm. So i've been using these mids separately (specs attached) with the es65c wired an stereo and giving rated 75rms and sometimes the el68 bridged giving 150rms each on the rockford.

What i've noticed is the es65c (midbass/midrange cut at 100hz 24db slope) has a very flat response and sounds pleasing to the ear but lacks that loudness and subwoofer bass easily covers them, whereas the el68(mid range, cut at 160hz 24db slope) loudness increase only a little given double power, but sound quality dropped alot because of bridging, some tones hurt your ear but it lacks midbass. I tried eqing these an there so hard to tame but they are crisp and sometimes clean.

 

Your thoughts? Which will you choose? Tips to get loud,clean tonal sound from either or. The goal is a daily system, clean yet impressive for a small amount. Am planning to sell the pair that i will not use.

 

Thanks

20220108_183505.jpg

20220108_155944.jpg

Screenshot_20211225-134241_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20211007-171412_Gallery.jpg

Just comparing the 2 on paper, the ES-65C seems like more of an SQ type driven driver. The Fs is 50 meaning you can cross them over a lot lower even from what you are (even though there really is no need since you have a subwoofer). At least I think that means the resonate frequency (it says Fo?). The sensitivity is 2 db lower as well. Meaning at 1 watt, with the microphone 1 meter away from the driver, using whatever tone or noise they use, it got up to 90 db. 

That all being said, those sky high drivers obviously can handle a lot more power than you're giving them. But that doesn't necessarily mean they will sound better. 

On my journey to decide which drivers I was going to use for my truck, basically the driving consensus was that what effects how the speaker plays, and how actually reproduces sound the most was the materials that where used to make it. What metal they used for the voice coil. What material they used for the cone. Former material. What size gap was used. Things of that nature. 

All in all, unfortunately, if you're looking for sound quality while getting loud, you're going to have a tough time with either, for different reasons with each. One thing that really helps, that is actually pretty hard to find on some drivers, is a frequency chart that is zoomed in so you can pick apart the different frequencies and see how the driver reacts. A lot of the time unfortunately, they post these graphs, but zoom out so far that the graph looks flat, when in fact it's peaky as all hell in real life. 

You're going through now, what I went through, and I don't envy you at all! I literally lost sleep over my decision on which drivers to use. I still worry I'm not going to like them. But, those are the breaks. You won't know until you try them, or hear them in someone else's ride. 

You can also run them through a DSP and EQ the hell out of them until you get the sound you're after. That's always an option. 

Edited by Dafaseles

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dafaseles said:

Just comparing the 2 on paper, the ES-65C seems like more of an SQ type driven driver. The Fs is 50 meaning you can cross them over a lot lower even from what you are (even though there really is no need since you have a subwoofer). At least I think that means the resonate frequency (it says Fo?). The sensitivity is 2 db lower as well. Meaning at 1 watt, with the microphone 1 meter away from the driver, using whatever tone or noise they use, it got up to 90 db. 

That all being said, those sky high drivers obviously can handle a lot more power than you're giving them. But that doesn't necessarily mean they will sound better. 

On my journey to decide which drivers I was going to use for my truck, basically the driving consensus was that what effects how the speaker plays, and how actually reproduces sound the most was the materials that where used to make it. What metal they used for the voice coil. What material they used for the cone. Former material. What size gap was used. Things of that nature. 

All in all, unfortunately, if you're looking for sound quality while getting loud, you're going to have a tough time with either, for different reasons with each. One thing that really helps, that is actually pretty hard to find on some drivers, is a frequency chart that is zoomed in so you can pick apart the different frequencies and see how the driver reacts. A lot of the time unfortunately, they post these graphs, but zoom out so far that the graph looks flat, when in fact it's peaky as all hell in real life. 

You're going through now, what I went through, and I don't envy you at all! I literally lost sleep over my decision on which drivers to use. I still worry I'm not going to like them. But, those are the breaks. You won't know until you try them, or hear them in someone else's ride. 

You can also run them through a DSP and EQ the hell out of them until you get the sound you're after. That's always an option. 

The es65c on the rta had such a flatter response and sounded pleasing to the ear,but it lacked that loudness, midbass was nice but you bearly heard it when the sub came into play. I installed both in the car, the skyhigh is loud an scratchy,hurts the ear and hard to tame, no dsp, doing my processing from my 80prs and a free rta app lol . But your right,i dont know which will give sound qual but a bit louder. I dont know if its worth it eqing the hell out of the sky high with the hope that they sound better

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Jeremy009 said:

The es65c on the rta had such a flatter response and sounded pleasing to the ear,but it lacked that loudness, midbass was nice but you bearly heard it when the sub came into play. I installed both in the car, the skyhigh is loud an scratchy,hurts the ear and hard to tame, no dsp, doing my processing from my 80prs and a free rta app lol . But your right,i dont know which will give sound qual but a bit louder. I dont know if its worth it eqing the hell out of the sky high with the hope that they sound better

That's exactly what I was thinking. You'd get a more pleasing sound from the ES65C, but at only 75 watts rms, it would be lacking in output, and basically the exact opposite for the sky high ones. 

I wish I've heard more options and could push you in the right direction, but unfortunately, I have not. But a couple of things that might help...

A lower Fs can mean it can play lower, and have a more mild sound. 

Lower sensitivity can mean a more SQ styled driver. 

Most SQ brands will design their drivers in 8 ohm, instead of 4 ohm. 

And well, 75-100 watts probably won't put out enough volume for your setup in your opinion. 

When dealing with a midrange driver, if the low pass filter is set too high, beaming can occur and that is not pleasant to the ear (basically, I'm saying I don't believe either of those drivers can play up past 10khz without beaming and getting shrill, though I've never owned them either, so I could be absolutely wrong.)

And by saying all that... nothing is ever 100% all the time. 🤷‍♂️ 

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Dafaseles said:

That's exactly what I was thinking. You'd get a more pleasing sound from the ES65C, but at only 75 watts rms, it would be lacking in output, and basically the exact opposite for the sky high ones. 

I wish I've heard more options and could push you in the right direction, but unfortunately, I have not. But a couple of things that might help...

A lower Fs can mean it can play lower, and have a more mild sound. 

Lower sensitivity can mean a more SQ styled driver. 

Most SQ brands will design their drivers in 8 ohm, instead of 4 ohm. 

And well, 75-100 watts probably won't put out enough volume for your setup in your opinion. 

When dealing with a midrange driver, if the low pass filter is set too high, beaming can occur and that is not pleasant to the ear (basically, I'm saying I don't believe either of those drivers can play up past 10khz without beaming and getting shrill, though I've never owned them either, so I could be absolutely wrong.)

And by saying all that... nothing is ever 100% all the time. 🤷‍♂️ 

I guess ill hold it down with the sky highs 6.5s then. I have them playing up to 3khz with a 24db slope with a pair of arc audio silk dome x2 playing 3khz up 24 slope. I friend of mind told me to cut them at 4khz instead, but from what i saw online beaming starts a around 3khz so i set them there, but i could be wrong. Am also using a free rta app named "sound spectrum analyzer" for android for my tuning, not sure if you know any better free apps for rta? 

Also, i tried a flat-ish target curve for tuning but wasnt to pleased with the sound. Any target curves to shoot for to tame the sky highs and have a more pleasing tonal but on the loud side sound? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of stuff to read, but have you tried a comparison running both sets on the amplifier without it being bridged? I realize the output level for the sky high will be pretty low since they are 8 ohm but I wonder if they sound better this way.

 

F150:

Stock :(

 

2019 Harley Road Glide:

Amp: TM400Xad - 4 channel 400 watt

Processor: DSR1

Fairing (Front) 6.5s -MMats PA601cx

Lid (Rear) 6x9s -  TMS69

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MrSkippyJ said:

A lot of stuff to read, but have you tried a comparison running both sets on the amplifier without it being bridged? I realize the output level for the sky high will be pretty low since they are 8 ohm but I wonder if they sound better this way.

I thought of that. But those speakers will only get like 40rms if wired that way lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've had a considerable time playing around with the both speakers with the resilient sounds is stereo at 75rms each and sky high bridged at 150rms each. The sky high really isn't that louder to the ear in real time, given double the power, but there is definitely a noticeable reduction in sound quality with the sky high being bridged.  

 

Am wondering if its even worth going to the sky high set up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jeremy009 said:

I've had a considerable time playing around with the both speakers with the resilient sounds is stereo at 75rms each and sky high bridged at 150rms each. The sky high really isn't that louder to the ear in real time, given double the power, but there is definitely a noticeable reduction in sound quality with the sky high being bridged.  

 

Am wondering if its even worth going to the sky high set up?

What I would do, and I don't know if this is an option for you, but maybe it is. 

If you like the sound given from the RS speakers, but it's not quite loud enough, it's running 2 drivers in each door, wired together for 2 ohms per channel an option? 

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Dafaseles said:

What I would do, and I don't know if this is an option for you, but maybe it is. 

If you like the sound given from the RS speakers, but it's not quite loud enough, it's running 2 drivers in each door, wired together for 2 ohms per channel an option? 

2 speakers per door is not an option. Trying to maintain that stock look. But thanks anyway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 192 Guests (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
×
×
  • Create New...