The Awsome D925

[loopkiller]

I take any post seriously that contradicts the way we present our company. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, and I, as well as others value that. The forums are here for the sole purpose of contributing to the community, and that is why we (XS Power) are here. For you to repeatedly boast that our ratings and recommendations are wrong (instead of that you do not totally agree with them) is not contributing, it is bashing. I would have no issue with you disagreeing with our recommendations if you had actual experience with our products. However, you can-not use your experience with your battery to determine the performance of ours, just as I would not use my experience driving my Malibu to determine the performance of a Vette.

When you say that “it rubs you the wrong way when the info on our site contradicts what people like you suggest”… maybe this means you should reconsider your suggestions, or maybe (like I’ve said numerous times) you have higher expectations than what the average consumer is looking for. I am sure if we followed your recommendations we would sell a lot more batteries to people that may not need them, but that is not our intention. Our recommendations are a guideline that fits for the majority… if you don’t want to follow our recommendation then that is up to you… you are outside of that guideline.

Oh… you avoided the question. Who are you again?

I was using Ed's experience with the products as an example of my conclusions of your marketing. It is not Malibu vs Vette as you would like it to be. It is more like apples to apples, or Red Delicious vs Granny Smith.

It is clear from the Ed example that the D925 is not capable of handling the 2500W that your marketing insists. Now maybe your marketing is referring to 2500W peak and not RMS. Maybe it is under strict circumstances. But none of that is apparent from your marketing info anywhere. I sure have never seen you clear up the misconceptions. I doubt you ever will.

The reason why I think I have a bone to pick with your marketing in general is because it was PowerMaster who claimed that Kinetik over-rated their products, when in fact, Ed's example shows the exact opposite. Not only did the Kinetik's provide more power than their ratings, but the XS units are falling well short of their respective ratings. So unless you want to go further down that path and get into a pissing match, I am done with it.

As for helping you sell more products, that is never my intention. But I may have done so inadvertently in the past. I know that I have recommended the D3400 and the D3100 many times. I think they are very good products and worthy of buying. I think that if a person can find a good value for the XS brand, they are reliable products. I will continue to recommend them on that basis. What I will not do, is recommend them based on the marketing info you give.

And for the record, I bash the hell out of Batcap, they suck. I have never bashed your products. I have only pointed out the errors of your marketing. I see a difference there.

As for who I am, if I wanted my name known, I would have said so. But I can assure you, you do not know me. I am not anything more than your average car audio enthusiast that happens to like to contribute the boards.

just want to say about my switch from Kinetik.

No matter what electrical differences occurred in my switch, look at my dB Drag Stats, I can pin point the exact time I switched, because my SPL increased 2dB.

Not only that but my Kinetiks were going bad. The highest I got my SPL in testing with Kinetiks was 151.4, then 2 had dead cells and I dropped to 149 dB. Then installed the XS Powers and up to 152.6dB. After some tuning, 153.5dB

So what you are saying is that the three HC2400s rated at 7200W were 1.2db less than the eight D925s rated at 20,000W. That is my point, thanks for helping.

Edited April 7, 2009 by loopkiller

[scottiej]

I was using Ed's experience with the products as an example of my conclusions of your marketing. It is not Malibu vs Vette as you would like it to be. It is more like apples to apples, or Red Delicious vs Granny Smith.

Ok... testing, tweaking, and understanding batteries is my job... it's what I do and know. Trust me... this is not an apples to apples comparison. Consult an expert... test for yourself... do something other than make assumptions... please.

It is clear from the Ed example that the D925 is not capable of handling the 2500W that your marketing insists. Now maybe your marketing is referring to 2500W peak and not RMS. Maybe it is under strict circumstances. But none of that is apparent from your marketing info anywhere. I sure have never seen you clear up the misconceptions. I doubt you ever will.

The problem here is that you are making incorrect assumptions to draw your conclusions. While I am sure Ed listens to music with his system on occasion, the numbers he has quoted are from competition runs. Our wattage chart was not created to determine the needs of world class SPL competitors. As a competitor I can tell you that there has never been a time when I have thought to myself "I am going to follow the manufacturer's recommendations to try and break a world record." My subs were rated at 2,000W... I used 15,000W, my amps were recommended to run at 2ohms... I ran them at .35ohms, box was recommended 1" thick MDF... I used 20" plus! I know what it takes to compete successfully, and I have built and installed daily driver systems for over 15 years... please tell me where you see a misconception, and please tell me I have something to hide! I guarantee you that if Ed wanted to pound out his system you would have to exit from the vehicle long before he ran out of juice to power the amp.

The reason why I think I have a bone to pick with your marketing in general is because it was PowerMaster who claimed that Kinetik over-rated their products, when in fact, Ed's example shows the exact opposite. Not only did the Kinetik's provide more power than their ratings, but the XS units are falling well short of their respective ratings. So unless you want to go further down that path and get into a pissing match, I am done with it.

Hey... be my guest! Keep picking! Kinetik claimed their 16V to be 1050CA. A Cranking Amp test is an industry standard performance test that is fully verifiable. Do you want to know what the Independent Testing Laboratory found it to be? Would you believe 492A? Powermaster didn't claim it, they proved it in Federal Court. It's a public case btw, so feel free to waste more of your time digging up the results for yourself if you wish. So again... I urge you to please buy or borrow some of our products and prove to me that they do not do what we say they will.

As for helping you sell more products, that is never my intention. But I may have done so inadvertently in the past. I know that I have recommended the D3400 and the D3100 many times. I think they are very good products and worthy of buying. I think that if a person can find a good value for the XS brand, they are reliable products. I will continue to recommend them on that basis. What I will not do, is recommend them based on the marketing info you give.

Oh... while we're on the topic of value... lets do some comparisons here and see how they work out, ok?

3 - HC2400's $329ea (first price found on google search) = $987

8 - D925's $139ea (normal internet price from google) = $1112

Total difference = $125... SPL gained +2db... when I was a competitor, I would have spent thousands to gain 2+db!!!

Wanna look at it a different way? Lets compare weight, ok?

3 - HC2400's 69lbs ea. = 207lbs.

8 - D925's 26.63lbs ea. = 213lbs.

hmm... 6 pound difference. Same amount of weight... +2dB for $125 extra. Am I getting through to you yet???

And for the record, I bash the hell out of Batcap, they suck. I have never bashed your products. I have only pointed out the errors of your marketing. I see a difference there.

What you do with Batcap is your business... that does not pertain to this topic. Stating that our marketing is wrong, is bashing. You are trying to convince the buying public that our recommendations are purposely wrong or misleading, when in fact they are not. You are entitled to your opinion, if you choose to ignore our recommendations that is fine, I get your point. Now you can "be done with it"

As for who I am, if I wanted my name known, I would have said so. But I can assure you, you do not know me. I am not anything more than your average car audio enthusiast that happens to like to contribute the boards.

Fine by me if you wanna hide behind a screen name... I was just checking to see if you were going to stand behind your statements, or just hide behind them at your computer. You made the obvious choice.

So what you are saying is that the three HC2400s rated at 7200W were 1.2db less than the eight D925s rated at 20,000W. That is my point, thanks for helping.

After all the explanation I've given, I am afraid comprehension > you Sir.

Edited April 9, 2009 by scottiej

[Torres]

OK Ed, now I did a little snooping into some of your past posts on some of the other forums and saw that you used to use the Kinetik batteries.

I am just your average guy who loves car audio and has too much time on my hands.

geeeeeeez. a LOT of it too it looks like. like you're out to get him or somethin. you lil detective you

i myself run XS batts, and in my brief comparisons to kinetik with multiple models, find them coming out ahead. at least in my circumstances. i love my batts and will continue to run them. not to take away from kinetik, as they obviously sell a solid product. but i will always run XS

[loopkiller]

Ok... testing, tweaking, and understanding batteries is my job... it's what I do and know. Trust me... this is not an apples to apples comparison. Consult an expert... test for yourself... do something other than make assumptions... please.

I have done the research based on what other competitors have said from their own usage. Since I am not personally a competitor, I do rely on what others say around the forums. I will admit that because of that, my stance is not as solid as yours. I will concede there.

The problem here is that you are making incorrect assumptions to draw your conclusions. While I am sure Ed listens to music with his system on occasion, the numbers he has quoted are from competition runs. Our wattage chart was not created to determine the needs of world class SPL competitors. As a competitor I can tell you that there has never been a time when I have thought to myself "I am going to follow the manufacturer's recommendations to try and break a world record." My subs were rated at 2,000W... I used 15,000W, my amps were recommended to run at 2ohms... I ran them at .35ohms, box was recommended 1" thick MDF... I used 20" plus! I know what it takes to compete successfully, and I have built and installed daily driver systems for over 15 years... please tell me where you see a misconception, and please tell me I have something to hide! I guarantee you that if Ed wanted to pound out his system you would have to exit from the vehicle long before he ran out of juice to power the amp.

See here is the rub, your wattage chart is so vague that it is left open for interpretation. If it was more specific, your customers would be more able to discern the info given. So if your chart had told me that the D925 can support 2500W, but only when I have a 300A alt, playing Yanni, and that 2500W is a peak watts, not RMS, then I could buy it. But there is not a single situation where I could imagine that a D925 that weighs under 27 pounds could power a ZX2500.1 full tilt on bass heavy music and not be well below operating voltage. And it is not the fault of the D925. I am sure that is a great product per pound when compared to other brands. It is just that it is woefully undersized for the application. A D3100 I am sure would handle that application and then some. So, again, I don't take issue with your companies products or their quality. It is just the ratings.

Hey... be my guest! Keep picking! Kinetik claimed their 16V to be 1050CA. A Cranking Amp test is an industry standard performance test that is fully verifiable. Do you want to know what the Independent Testing Laboratory found it to be? Would you believe 492A? Powermaster didn't claim it, they proved it in Federal Court. It's a public case btw, so feel free to waste more of your time digging up the results for yourself if you wish. So again... I urge you to please buy or borrow some of our products and prove to me that they do not do what we say they will.

Now Scotty, tell me what CAs have to do with car audio? I will never defend the inflated specs of the battery industry. They all do it. Not to mention that CA and CCA are all pretty much useless today, even outside of car audio. Today's cars can start with very minimal cranking power. I know you guys do racing stuff, so I am sure that matters there, but I do not have a clue about race cars.

Oh, and since PM took down the link for the lawsuit, I have not seen anything else regarding that case. Did you guys win against Kinetik too? I know that you settled with some of the other companies. If it was a hush hush thing, I understand that you can't talk about it.

Oh... while we're on the topic of value... lets do some comparisons here and see how they work out, ok?

3 - HC2400's $329ea (first price found on google search) = $987

8 - D925's $139ea (normal internet price from google) = $1112

Total difference = $125... SPL gained +2db... when I was a competitor, I would have spent thousands to gain 2+db!!!

Wanna look at it a different way? Lets compare weight, ok?

3 - HC2400's 69lbs ea. = 207lbs.

8 - D925's 26.63lbs ea. = 213lbs.

hmm... 6 pound difference. Same amount of weight... +2dB for $125 extra. Am I getting through to you yet???

I guess I am just looking at it in a different way than you are, because everything you just said seems to strengthen my point, at least IMO. The fact that your product that Ed is using is very close to the Kinetik product in price, weight, and performance is exactly my point. Again, I want to reiterate this one point, I don't think your product is inferior to the Kinetik brand. I would assume if we compared one of the Kinetik batteries that weighed the same, it would be a better apples to apples, but I am not even interested in doing that.

My only point here is this: Since both situations for Ed were very close in most cases, you could assume that the three HC2400 and the eight D925 would be relatively close in performance ratings. They are not even close. And it is not like there is a minor difference in ratings. Each D925 is rated higher than each HC2400, yet it took eight of the D925 to surpass the performance of three HC2400. That seems so easy to comprehend. Maybe you still think the Kinetik ratings are invalid since you still hold that your ratings are not flawed. Maybe you are thinking that the Kinetik ratings are too low?

What you do with Batcap is your business... that does not pertain to this topic. Stating that our marketing is wrong, is bashing. You are trying to convince the buying public that our recommendations are purposely wrong or misleading, when in fact they are not. You are entitled to your opinion, if you choose to ignore our recommendations that is fine, I get your point. Now you can "be done with it"

I am sorry if you see it as bashing because that really is not my intent at all. I just wanted some clarification on the ratings so I could help people who are looking for good batteries. I just want to give sound advice is all.

Fine by me if you wanna hide behind a screen name... I was just checking to see if you were going to stand behind your statements, or just hide behind them at your computer. You made the obvious choice.

Yes I will hide behind my computer. What difference would it make if you knew my name? And it is not like I am hiding it from you per se, I just feel that there are a lot of people who read these forums and I would prefer that some of these nut jobs not know where to find me. I do not see you as a threat, but I have seen some crazy mofos on these forums and I would rather feel safer sleeping at night knowing my identity is protected. I would never put my self out there like Steve has. I would never put my family in that position. I don't want people coming to my house looking for my system or what have you.

After all the explanation I've given, I am afraid comprehension > you Sir.

Ok, so I guess you have regressed to the position of the typical forum bully by posting fail pics. I would have hoped you would have kept this more professional than that. Since you are representing a large company, I would have expected better.

[Snoopy-Bass]

Hey... be my guest! Keep picking! Kinetik claimed their 16V to be 1050CA. A Cranking Amp test is an industry standard performance test that is fully verifiable. Do you want to know what the Independent Testing Laboratory found it to be? Would you believe 492A? Powermaster didn't claim it, they proved it in Federal Court. It's a public case btw, so feel free to waste more of your time digging up the results for yourself if you wish. So again... I urge you to please buy or borrow some of our products and prove to me that they do not do what we say they will.

I tried to find this court proof and I can't find it anywhere??? Where is this at?

I have also adjusted my enclosures day by day and for different conditions have gotten between +/-.3 db to 1.8 db differences on the same equipment.

How many Db could I gain going from a D2700 to a D3100 on a pair of kicker 2500.1's on a pair of dual 2 ohm 15's?

Edited April 9, 2009 by Snoopy-Bass

[meade916]

actually, just from simply reading the webpage i see this:

PN:: D925 - 12V AGM Battery

• Great output power

• Perfect suppliment for amplifiers up to 2500 watts

• Tightly packed design makes it a perfect fit in tight trunk spaces or under seats

• can be used as the main battery and still provide power for amplifiers up to 1000 watts

• 3 year warranty

from EXPERIENCE i can tell you that most stock cars with a second battery or SUPPLIMENTED battery can handle a 2500w system, especially since most bass amps are class D. It CLEARLY says if this is your ONLY battery or MAIN battery, you can still use it for a 1000w system. Sounds fair to me since i have ran 1500w off my stock honda battery and stock alt......which were VERY small.

where is the inflated stats at?

[meade916]

considering you have been owned and your like a hot air baloon that has no more hot air left......this thread and the XS bashing stops here.

do yourself a favor and go learn something about car audio instead of quoting what you read on forums all day and trying to argue about it. (and YOU ADMITTED THAT YOU CAN ONLY QUOTE WHAT YOU READ DUE TO LACK OF EXPERIENCE).