Basshead08 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 How does the flat cone affect the reconing process? How would you shim the voice coil with solid cone (i.e. no dustcap hole to take the shims out through)? System tear out has begun...Out with the old i have a iq of 128 i graduated at the top of my class tell me how im reatrded you are the 1 thats dumb as hell you can't even spell Look at the underlined text hahahahahahahaha I think of it as the virgin losing the virginity technique not just jumping in to it, and pounding away, but going at it slowly over time, to get to that full extreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDMstang65 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Well lets wait for the test results. This may be a few weeks or more away with the holiday season approaching. I will let you know that the test will be fair and 100% legit. For the most part it will be DC vs DC so it cant lose. Like i said may take a reference from a DD 99Z 18 just to see how it compares. Of course these cones will be more then a paper cone made in China. US built in house for now until you start to build them for us. haha I know you are hell bent about the design being weaker, this is true for the most part, but what if the design of the flat design is not flat at all? If that makes any sense? And i have a PPI cone here, i know how they attached them and the strength and there is no question why it didnt work out in high power applications. I told you we are not going into this blind. Just try to refrain from arguing and labeling it a failure until i test it. And again the production assembly will be much better then this first sub i am testing, i would bet atleast 0.5 dB louder with the added secrets. Promising SPL gain is like handing somebody "winning" lottery or Keno numbers...it is the effect of a random event in a period of time. Better yet..a crap shoot. You can only say given variable X in this scenario it is ____dB louder, and make note that THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN ANOTHER INSTALL. (It is a random event in a given data set) This is nothing different then something outside of the "I have more motor strength" war. More motor strength does not mean something will be inherently 'louder' across the board. You get to a point of marginal returns..where your score suffers dearly from more motor strength. If you can safely put 200 horse power down via the drive train and your p185 series tire. Do you need a 8500 horse power top fuel drag engine to daily drive in? Or do you need that 200 horse power? The 4 cylinder 200 horse power car will outrun the 8500 horse power car with the same tires...because the 8500 horse power car will never put even the 200 horsepower to the ground because it will do nothing but blow the tires loose...because you cannot control it. Simple physics and geometry...it comes from experience...ultimately you learn from mistakes. Authorized Ascendant Audio Dealer! Message me for information. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough -Albert Einstein "I have a plausible excuse for not liking you. And you know why." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyk90 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) How does the flat cone affect the reconing process? How would you shim the voice coil with solid cone (i.e. no dustcap hole to take the shims out through)? This....is a very good point. I didn't even think of that. I'm guessing that the cone and the rest of the softparts would have to be separate. Glue the coil and spiders into place, let them dry, then you remove the shims and drop the cone and surround on top. A lot more work for, once again, no benefit. Edited December 13, 2009 by tommyk90 Team B2, Team Audiotechnix, Team Kicker, Team XS Power, Team Sundown, Team Maxxsonics, Team DD2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 Regional and National Champion2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 and 2012 MECA Champion (S1, SR1, S2, S3, S4, DB1) -1 DD 9510F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ .7 ohm strapped=154.2 headrest, 129.2 driveby-2 DD 9510F's + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=154.0 headrest-1 DD 9512F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=153.5 headrest, 131.1 Driveby -2 DD 9512F + 2 B2 Zero1's @ .5 strapped= 157.0 headrest, 158.0 outlaw-1 Sundown SA-8 + 2 MB Quart 2000's=148.8 headrest, 150.6 outlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainzPlanetz Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 This....is a very good point.I didn't even think of that. I'm guessing that the cone and the rest of the softparts would have to be separate. Glue the coil and spiders into place, let them dry, then you remove the shims and drop the cone and surround on top. A lot more work for, once again, no benefit. I would also like to know how the reconing process will work. ¿ǝɯɐƃ ǝɥʇ Trolls never learn............ All BS aside, If I see one more comment in here that is NOT about the pre-sale, I will start the vacations. And that includes the trolls feeding the trolls. YOU THE ONE THAT SOUND LIKE A OGER AND HUMPBACK/TROLLS? Add "SMDLIFER" on Xbox LIVE to play with other SMD members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofanaticz Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Look at all the loudest vehicles in the world and take a look at what type of cone they use (minus the fact that most of them run DD). I giggled a little. Ok a lot! Granted that the carbon fiber construction WILL help with this issue, but I see absolutely zero benefits of using a flat carbon fiber cone versus a concave one (i.e. dd composite cones). You still lose overall cone area and a great amount of strength. People who think concave cones cause cancellation are just using that as an excuse to ride DC's nuts.I stand by what I said. If I'm proven wrong, then so be it. There's a reason that flat cones haven't been used since the eD/PPI era, especially in high SPL applications. They just don't work. I agree, I ran composite cones now for many years.. And thru that time Ive been trashing coils left and right.. Never again will I run a composite cone I dont think, or any cone that has a lesser pitch of a concave cone, or even a flat cone. The center of gravity on the cone is raised so much and is horrid for daily abuse! Im very interested to see how these DC turn out just like the T3 tsns..... Or maybe DD just dont know how to build woofers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyk90 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 I giggled a little. Ok a lot! I agree, I ran composite cones now for many years.. And thru that time Ive been trashing coils left and right.. Never again will I run a composite cone I dont think, or any cone that has a lesser pitch of a concave cone, or even a flat cone. The center of gravity on the cone is raised so much and is horrid for daily abuse! Im very interested to see how these DC turn out just like the T3 tsns..... Or maybe DD just dont know how to build woofers. I wouldn't say that DD doesn't know how to build woofers, I think they have already proven themselves a few times over. People can say what they want about DD's softparts or whatever, but theres gotta be something to them since all the loudest street competitors (in the U.S.) use them. Never had the chance to use a composite cone, too expensive for my wallet. But I feel that the composite cones are really only beneficial in super high SPL installs, like extreme vehicles. They are dead sexy though, especially when paired with the carbon fiber dustcaps. What exactly are you doing to the coils? Just rocking too much or what? Team B2, Team Audiotechnix, Team Kicker, Team XS Power, Team Sundown, Team Maxxsonics, Team DD2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 Regional and National Champion2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 and 2012 MECA Champion (S1, SR1, S2, S3, S4, DB1) -1 DD 9510F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ .7 ohm strapped=154.2 headrest, 129.2 driveby-2 DD 9510F's + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=154.0 headrest-1 DD 9512F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=153.5 headrest, 131.1 Driveby -2 DD 9512F + 2 B2 Zero1's @ .5 strapped= 157.0 headrest, 158.0 outlaw-1 Sundown SA-8 + 2 MB Quart 2000's=148.8 headrest, 150.6 outlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The A Team Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 This....is a very good point.I didn't even think of that. I'm guessing that the cone and the rest of the softparts would have to be separate. Glue the coil and spiders into place, let them dry, then you remove the shims and drop the cone and surround on top. A lot more work for, once again, no benefit. Both ways require the same steps and no extra work. Regular recone you glue in the soft parts shim your coil wait to dry then glue on a dustcap. Consider this flat cone a dustcap. Same basic principle. Now you are just digging for every excuse to argue your opinion. no benefit, no benefit yes yes we get it already no benefit......... that you can see. Its obvious you are not interested in seeing this sub work out, and have no intentions of approving to it, or DC in general from what you posted in this thread. I dont expect you will ever have anything positive to add here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The A Team Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 The center of gravity on the cone is raised so much and is horrid for daily abuse! This is true and has been addressed. You guys all worry to much wait for the test results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyk90 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Both ways require the same steps and no extra work. Regular recone you glue in the soft parts shim your coil wait to dry then glue on a dustcap. Consider this flat cone a dustcap. Same basic principle. Now you are just digging for every excuse to argue your opinion. no benefit, no benefit yes yes we get it already no benefit......... that you can see. Its obvious you are not interested in seeing this sub work out, and have no intentions of approving to it, or DC in general from what you posted in this thread. I dont expect you will ever have anything positive to add here. Not entirely true. I would consider the alignment of the cone and surround to be a lot more crucial to the subs performance and durability than a simple dustcap. And from the sound of it, DC is doing something special with the cone to former joint, which I would think would HAVE to involve more steps since with older flat cone subs you could only glue the former to the cone from the back side. I don't have anything positive to add because there IS nothing positive about this idea. Team B2, Team Audiotechnix, Team Kicker, Team XS Power, Team Sundown, Team Maxxsonics, Team DD2008 Bassrace 130-139.9 Regional and National Champion2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 and 2012 MECA Champion (S1, SR1, S2, S3, S4, DB1) -1 DD 9510F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ .7 ohm strapped=154.2 headrest, 129.2 driveby-2 DD 9510F's + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=154.0 headrest-1 DD 9512F + 2 Sundown SAZ2500's @ 1 ohm strapped=153.5 headrest, 131.1 Driveby -2 DD 9512F + 2 B2 Zero1's @ .5 strapped= 157.0 headrest, 158.0 outlaw-1 Sundown SA-8 + 2 MB Quart 2000's=148.8 headrest, 150.6 outlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofanaticz Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 What exactly are you doing to the coils? Just rocking too much or what? Major coil rub do to that. Its was so easy due to the high center of gravity to say, or the former attaching to the cone so high up maybe better. That Just lightly touching the outter side of my cone by the surround would make my coil rub. Ive tried numerous boxes, to reduce back pressure, different port sizing. Even paid PWK for designs to help reduce this problem but nothing has worked for me. Versus a the former that is attached by spider, transfers all the energy completely different. Doing the same test with my paper cones I notice no rubbing mostly because the energy is absorbed by the cone and transferred down to one point where my whole cone assembly moves, and not just one side like before. It was so bad I had my subs reconed 4 different times that DD finally said to send them in and reconed at their cost with paper cones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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