So, how many out there set gains with 0db instead of -5db tones?

[moh.vze.com]

Thanks for the detailed writeup decaf. I will check this built in oscope software when I get home from work. I wish there was a headunit out there that has a screen and displays the waves of the song as u play them

[Decaf]

i have used the -5db test track for mine and it sounds good ive checked songs in audacity and there around -8db

That's rare. Most properly "mastered" recordings are fairly close to 0db to get as much dynamic range from the medium as possible. If you're using recycled music (dubbed, remixed, chopped n screwed) then it's likely you're either throwing away dynamic range or clipping all to hell and back. Sorry I trust pro studio engineers a lot more than youtube mixmasters.

If it's not loud enough at 0db, get more power.

The overall song reaches 0dB yes, but once the signal is LPF'd the sub will only see -10dB to -5dB, the rest of the data belongs to the mids/highs.

Your an idiot to think just because someone is a "pro studio engineer" that you are safer or that they are somehow better. Look at Timbaland, there isn't a song that doesn't have a clipped kick drum in it and he uses one of the most expensive studios created with well educated staff.

No, I'm not an idiot, you are presumptious. And I'm sorry if you took offense... You might be only one of the few guys doing what you do that actually cares about clipping (you, BigPimpin91 and Slow 'n Throw.) Obviously there are exceptions especially with Timbaland and most "home studio" hip hop. However, I stand by the fact that I said "MOST PROPERLY MASTERED RECORDINGS" are decent and unclipped. Not everyone listens to all electronic music... You say Timbaland is doing it right cause he has properly trained staff but all his songs are clipping??? He obviously isn't doing it right. You can hear that clipping without a scope it's so bad BTW.

I do not care for TImbaland, but many artists utlize his studio, it was just an example that the place it was made means little.

I've used this example and I'll use it again, Rick Rubin one of the most prolific producers in history loved the sound from "pushing the needles to red". A good majority of all rock music from his studio surpasses 0dB, its hard to avoid. Thats why I stress waveform and not just surpassing 0dB. Thanks for the compliement. I didn't mean to call you an idiot persae, just that your thought process was presumptuous in that large label studios produce cleaner music and its been proven wrong many times. Pros use their ears and sometimes a pleasant comes from distortion.

I'd set it with -0db tones, but at a number on your volume knob a step or two under HU clipping. That way, you know where your threshold is and when you're dipping into overhead. If you just go by the -5db tones, you can get into clipping and not know it.

I've already determined my H/U's max vol without clipping and I decided to go with 30/35 to be safe.

I was using Meade's DD-1 pdf guide. In his guide it seems like he recommends his users to use either -5db or -10db test ones for setting the gains.

I've just loaded a good amount of music into Audacity and a lot of songs have a constant 0db range; as a result, I might go back and retune everthing with a -5db test tone just to be safe

I'll wait for more opinions on this before I do this though.

Remember as stated above that the only speakers seeing 0dB would be those given full range, which almost no speakers are full range in car audio. The subs signal is LowPassFilterered and thus the sub wont see 0dB. The mids will get HighPassFiltered and thus won't see 0dB. The tweeters will see the least amount of data, again because its HighPassFiltered and only allow highs to pass through.

Before the DD-1 the most common setting was -3dB@50hz to set gains with. Rockford Fosgate has, since the 360, suggested using gain overlap and to use -10dB@40hz, hence the DD-1 having options of -5, -10, -15.

So? If you're using a tone that's 1khz at 0, that's the loudest it will put out clean. period. You don't use 1k to set your sub gains and you don't use 40 or 50hz to set your mids/highs. What am I missing?!? The -5 -10 -15 options just allow for overhead.

Overhead/Gain Overlap is used because rarely does music approach 0dB, if it does collectively, it won't once separated to the individual speakers. You could not combine a 0dB 1000hz tone ontop of a 0dB 40hz tone... to have both be played cleanly together both need to be less than 0db, thus you can set your gain with a tone quieter than 0dB to better align with the average music signal strength the speakers actually get.

There's no reason to go -5, then... If you know where you start to clip, using -5 tones just makes it uncertain again.

as long as the clipping isn't in the recording itself, you'll be fine. If the music has clipping in it already, no matter where you set your gains your speakers will see it.

0dB is the safest setting but you can still clip the amp. Nothing is fool proof because the music you play matters more than the gain setting IMO. Learning what music should look like on an oscope played in real time is very important. I refuse to play a song in my stereo without knowing what the waveform looks like. Thats why for 5 years I haven't damaged a single piece of equipment yet I play the loudest songs available.

Dude, I said that before, that if your music has clipping your speakers will see it no matter what the gains are at. The idea about setting gains with a DD1 is that you will not turn all your unclipped music into clipped signal, roasting your speakers in the process. If you're set at 0 and have unclipped music you will not cliip your speakers. That's the whole point. I'm not saying that -5 absolutely will kill your subs if you dip into overhead, but your chances multiply BIG TIME if you do.

Is one not allowed to reiterate... I don't know who you are but a lot of readers know me, so I reiterated.

The problem is most do play clipped music without knowing it, I bet you do everyday. So even when using 0dB you still aren't safe, that's all I said.

The idea of the DD-1 was to set your gain to the average loudness of music you play for max clean output.

Not sure why you are getting bothered so much "dude"... I enjoy educating

watch every song you download via Windows Media Player Oscope, thats what I would hope everyone does because it prevents almost all problems with playing the wrong songs.

Now Playing Screen > Right Click > Bars and Waves > Scope

You can mess around with the graphic equalizer to see what happens when you boost the bass, this will clip the bass and flatten the waveform and let you see very clearly what will ruin subs and sub amps. Add 6dB and not much more so you don't ruin your headphones. By seeing the detrimental clipping while hearing the detrimental clipping you train your hear/eyes to pick it up quickly while going through your music collection as you download/acquire it.

Notice once the bassline starts to flatten after the boost that the mids/highs start to dissappear and sound very muddy/lost... that's because the data was pushed beyond 0dB and was lost. This is why you cannot recover a song that has lots of clipping, the distortion created from clipping combined with the data being chopped off leaves you with an unpleasant sound that will keep speakers at peak voltage more, resulting in the heat build up that ruins equipment.

Audacity's "Show Clipping" feature shows where the song has surpassed 0dB. This is NOT a good indication because millseconds of mids/highs is usually whats beyond 0dB and not the bass, what IS detrimental are the large flat plateau'd bass lines that "Show Clipping" will not indicate.

This is probably the most important thing anyone here will read regarding protecting your gear from clipping.

thanks

[Quiet]

So say your HU clips at 35, and you set all your amps' gains at 0db with the volume at 30, so you know exactly how much overhead you're getting into? (and gauge your risk)

or is it better to set gains with your volume at 35 with -5 or -10 tones and guess?

I guess I haven't run into as much clipping as you... I HAVE heard some bad clipping in rock music, and I don't play it much. You CAN train your ear to pick up excessive clipping but nothing beats a waveform.

[moh.vze.com]

Decaf! It's a bit hard to tell by looking at Window Media Player's Bar scope. Can you create a video tuturial on how to look for clipping?

[CHINO11550]

So say your HU clips at 35, and you set all your amps' gains at 0db with the volume at 30, so you know exactly how much overhead you're getting into? (and gauge your risk)

or is it better to set gains with your volume at 35 with -5 or -10 tones and guess?

Thats a good ? that is the way i would most likely do it.

[01ExSport]

Decaf! It's a bit hard to tell by looking at Window Media Player's Bar scope. Can you create a video tuturial on how to look for clipping?

Go to the play speed option (forgot the actual name) in WMP and set it to .5 or whichever is the slowest you can go to, it's much easier to see that way.

Got the info for the man himself while brushing up on the topic a while back

err...and If i remember correctly, you don't want flat sections, or large spikes.

[moh.vze.com]

So, now that I have my DLS MS6A's back in my doors. I'm playing decaf mixes and other songs, I've noticed that I'm not comfortable turning the volume to my max tuned volume settings (30/35). Everything just seems so loud. The loudest volume that I'd be comfortable at is 28, but I sometimes turn it back down to 26/35. I'm 100% sure the music is not distorted at 29/30 either, but it's just so damn loud. Is this normal for everyone?

I used my o-scope and my eD NiNe.2 (for the components) can go to 21.5VAC without showing clipping (I have it tuned to 20VAC for Power=(20^2)/4Ohms = 100RMS to each component).

I've also recently got a new headaunit (Kenwood x895), I've checked that Bassboost and all boosts is turned off. Everything is set to 0dB. The only settings I left default were those bandpass, centerbass freq, and all of that weird crap. I have the LPF set to 80hz, HPF set to 125hz.

If you guys have any suggestions to what I should check on the headunit that would be great.

Again, if you guys tune with -5dB tones to a max volume, do you guys rarely listen at full tilt? When I tuned with a 0dB tone, I'd listen to my music at full tilt volume without any problems.

[Quiet]

it's an old saying.

If it's too loud, you're too old.

[RooTxBeeR]

Decaf! It's a bit hard to tell by looking at Window Media Player's Bar scope. Can you create a video tuturial on how to look for clipping?

slow the track down in WMP and then take a look at it

[moh.vze.com]

it's an old saying.

If it's too loud, you're too old.

Damn. I think you're right

Time to start another thread for my build upgrade.. Putting 6.5's in my rear deck ~_~