Yes, another thread pertaining to 4th order

[WolfieGeez]

Hello there, I've been a lurker for quite some time now, and thought I'd throw up yet another 4th order thread to annoy you folks as a first impression

Alright, alright, on to the serious side, I've been considering for a while a, yes, 4th order enclosure for my tc-3000 15". I'll throw some specs up since I'm a nice fella:

15" TC-3000 QVC

Qts 0.308

Qes 0.324

Qms 6.10

Fs 22hz

Res 4.63Ω

Ls 9.2 mH

Lp 20.2mH

Rp 27.66Ω

Dia 325mm

Vas 146l

mms 373g

cms 140um/N

bl 27.1T*m

Spl 88.6dB

I'd like to focus your attention towards the two bolded T/S parameters above. Now I'm planning to throw these numbers into bassbox pro and see what she has to say, but at the same time, since I envy all your opinions, I thought I'd see what you more experienced bassheads had to say.

You see the reason I'm questioning a 4th order is not because of the FS, since that is WELL low enough, but rather the QTS value. Its just seems a BIT low to comply with a 4th order. A good rule of thumb I always follow is anything over .4 should do good. I know, following a pre-determined equation/statement, tisk tisk, but I'm posting here, arent I?

This is going in a 2003 honda civic coupe, of course in the trunk, as long as I can make it fit. And yes, I'll build it in the trunk if need be, I know these 4th orders may get a little on the large side. If not I'll go for the good ol' classic L port, or if I'm feeling daring some serious aeroportage.

My goal here is to get low. I want to murder the lows like a cold blooded mofo. And I'm pretty sure these TC's are decent at that. And so far in my experience with it, I'd say it does quite well. But I think it can do betar!!1!11!I'm guessing then if I go through with this 4th order I should do a 1:1. Or is it 1:2 for the wider bandwidth? Fuck whatever gets those mad lows.

So to sum it up for the sake of tl;dr: 4th order bandpass, TC-3000 15, honda civic coupe, do it make teh bass? If there is something better equipt, other than the traditional ported enclosure, lemme know, keep in mind I'm looking to hit those juicy lows. Also, at the MOMENT the idea is seal off the trunk, port forward, unless you rocket scientists say otherwise.

Alright so I'll do my little calcs and you guys shoot your ideas hear. Dankyu!

[WolfieGeez]

Seriously no brilliant mind want to chime in? I feel hurt

Bumpidy

[n8ball2013]

you'll find very few people here actually do their own fourth order designs. Those that do spend a ton of time on them and are busy doing them for others as well. Im not a fan of the fourth order. mainly because I dont have the time to design one or build one and because I dont feel its the magic answer to being loud. I see way more failed fourth orders that either play super low but not super loud or just dont get loud than I see 4th orders that are wowing.

You'll notice that alot of loud 4ths i mean really loud are all designed by the same guys. You'll also find alot of guys who say they love their 4th order but wouldnt know loud if it was sleepign with their girl.

my advice to you is either pay singer or someone who has a proven track record for designing loud 4th orders or be ready to do a couple different boxes when you are unhappy iwth the first.

[IBleedMusick]

you'll find very few people here actually do their own fourth order designs. Those that do spend a ton of time on them and are busy doing them for others as well. Im not a fan of the fourth order. mainly because I dont have the time to design one or build one and because I dont feel its the magic answer to being loud. I see way more failed fourth orders that either play super low but not super loud or just dont get loud than I see 4th orders that are wowing.

You'll notice that alot of loud 4ths i mean really loud are all designed by the same guys. You'll also find alot of guys who say they love their 4th order but wouldnt know loud if it was sleepign with their girl.

my advice to you is either pay singer or someone who has a proven track record for designing loud 4th orders or be ready to do a couple different boxes when you are unhappy iwth the first.

Exactly what N8 said. I am working on one now for a single 8 but it is simply a "I have never done this before so I might as well try it out" type thing. Not really designing it with any intentions in mind, if it's loud its loud, if it sucks ass I had it designed so I can play with tuning and really play with as much as I want, but the fascination has become increasingly apparent lately and I would really like to know who started the fad of lets all make 4th orders because they get you big numbers real easy.

[tacomaguy1]

Build a regar ported box, the tc will do good in it and still get low like you want it to

[OBI]

you'll find very few people here actually do their own fourth order designs. Those that do spend a ton of time on them and are busy doing them for others as well. Im not a fan of the fourth order. mainly because I dont have the time to design one or build one and because I dont feel its the magic answer to being loud. I see way more failed fourth orders that either play super low but not super loud or just dont get loud than I see 4th orders that are wowing.

You'll notice that alot of loud 4ths i mean really loud are all designed by the same guys. You'll also find alot of guys who say they love their 4th order but wouldnt know loud if it was sleepign with their girl.

my advice to you is either pay singer or someone who has a proven track record for designing loud 4th orders or be ready to do a couple different boxes when you are unhappy iwth the first.

THIS is exactly what pushed me away from doing a fourth on my rebuild. Just sticking with the good old trusty ported flat wall.

[HatersGonnaHate]

Squeezing a 4th order in the back of a Civic is not worth the hassle. Not enough clearance and not enough room. Trust me. Trying to squeeze a 15 in there with the proper airspace can be done though, so I'd recommend getting a ported box design, built to spec and thrown in the trunk.

[WolfieGeez]

Squeezing a 4th order in the back of a Civic is not worth the hassle. Not enough clearance and not enough room. Trust me. Trying to squeeze a 15 in there with the proper airspace can be done though, so I'd recommend getting a ported box design, built to spec and thrown in the trunk.

I already got a box back there, just seeing if there are other options out there. Right now I got the TC-15 in a 3cu ft after displacement with a 6" aeroport and it slams. 3cu. ft isn't too small, the TC's work well in smaller enclosures, and right now the box is taking up most the trunj. Completely happy with the box, and towards the end of june I should be sealing it off from the trunk with some nice fiberglass work. But the bitch gets low, tuned to 30hz, probably could even tune it a bit lower with such a low ass FS, but I haven't touched any further port work yet so I'll do my work there. So I do have experience with squeeze work, getting that 15" in a civic trunk WAS a bitch, believe me. They arent the smallest trunks, but still, right now the sub is snug between the roof and the floor.

But like I said, I was just seeing what you guys'd recommend, I wasn't planning anything until this summer, so I'm just playing with box designs for shits and giggles until I get a design I'm 100% happy with, for now the aeroport box slams quite well :-)

Edited April 30, 2012 by WolfieGeez

[WolfieGeez]

Build a regar ported box, the tc will do good in it and still get low like you want it to

Oh fuck yeah mate, I already got the TC in a ported enclosure, and it slams amazingly low, I haven't a problem with the box, just seeing any other optionays ya know, for shits and giggles.

[WolfieGeez]

you'll find very few people here actually do their own fourth order designs. Those that do spend a ton of time on them and are busy doing them for others as well. Im not a fan of the fourth order. mainly because I dont have the time to design one or build one and because I dont feel its the magic answer to being loud. I see way more failed fourth orders that either play super low but not super loud or just dont get loud than I see 4th orders that are wowing.

You'll notice that alot of loud 4ths i mean really loud are all designed by the same guys. You'll also find alot of guys who say they love their 4th order but wouldnt know loud if it was sleepign with their girl.

my advice to you is either pay singer or someone who has a proven track record for designing loud 4th orders or be ready to do a couple different boxes when you are unhappy iwth the first.

Exactly what N8 said. I am working on one now for a single 8 but it is simply a "I have never done this before so I might as well try it out" type thing. Not really designing it with any intentions in mind, if it's loud its loud, if it sucks ass I had it designed so I can play with tuning and really play with as much as I want, but the fascination has become increasingly apparent lately and I would really like to know who started the fad of lets all make 4th orders because they get you big numbers real easy.

I have no intentions to 'get loud easy.' Thats boring anyways, eh?

I think the fad is all about the fact 4th orders have potential to either have a decent bandwidth, or target a specific frequency quite well in some applications. And I definitely know that 4th order enclosures do take some skill. But I only was wondering since, like I said, if built right they can have a nice clean bandwidth, or, in my case, can hit extremely low extremely loud. But I'm not saying its an alternative to the good ol' ported, because I 100% know ported enclosures get mad low as well. Just experimenting really, but I just wanted to see if a 4th order would get them lows more efficiently and loudly. I'll stick to my ported and get the fiberglass and resin all ready for a little project to kick off the summer. :-)

Thanks for your input guys!

Oh and totally forgot to mention, after playing around with bassbox pro, it seems like I wouldn't get much better results than a ported, in any way, in many configurations, so to save wood, and money, I'll skip a 4th order. Plus I already went through enough squeezing getting just the ported enclosure in there.