Test: Sundown 1500d Vs Rf T1k Part 2

AI James · January 7, 2008

^ great post and i fully agree

fourlug · January 7, 2008

^ great post and i fully agree

tommyk90 · January 7, 2008

Out of curiousity, why did you set up the box like that?

We had one type-r 15" and an orion 2500d running at 1 ohm do a 150.1 in the kick in the 40 hz range out of a grand am trunk. I've never seen port forward work well in ANY vehicle besides a wall.

As for the sundown vs. RF test, I'll hold my comments to myself.

Derrick824 · January 7, 2008

Out of curiousity, why did you set up the box like that?

We had one type-r 15" and an orion 2500d running at 1 ohm do a 150.1 in the kick in the 40 hz range out of a grand am trunk. I've never seen port forward work well in ANY vehicle besides a wall.

As for the sundown vs. RF test, I'll hold my comments to myself.

The testing went like this,

We squeezed in the largest box that would fit into the trunk (and still be easily removable) which was 5.6ft w/ a pair of 4" aeros. This box was tested facing rear and forward with forward hitting the best #s at 144.2db. When firing towards the rear it seemed as if the box was blocking the sound.

The key is that it only works if the box is pushed all the way back against the rear of the car. Sliding the box forward any has resulted in as much as a 2db loss.

The next step for the T1 15s was to add more port but since our box size/shape wouldn't allow all the ports and subs to be on the same face the subs got pointed up and ports forward external. Some previous testing done with a pair of 12s in my Altima showed that firing subs & port up did the same as firing subs & port rear, but subs & port forward did better. It was this testing that led to the subs up & ports forward design. This setup has done a best of 145.4 on the dash with a single amp , 146.9 in the kick with a single amp, 147.7 on the dash w/ a pair of Sundown 1500s, and a 149.1 in the kick w/ a pair of Sundown 1500s.

I consider those some pretty decent trunk scores so its whats working well for us. Also keep in mind that this isn't a pure spl install. The box is 5.6ft and tuned to 35hz so it plays music just fine. Our next steps include trying out a little more port area and increasing tuning. The current short term goal is a 146 on the dash with a single amp and a 150 on the dash with a pair of amps.

tommyk90 · January 7, 2008

The testing went like this,

We squeezed in the largest box that would fit into the trunk (and still be easily removable) which was 5.6ft w/ a pair of 4" aeros. This box was tested facing rear and forward with forward hitting the best #s at 144.2db. When firing towards the rear it seemed as if the box was blocking the sound.

The key is that it only works if the box is pushed all the way back against the rear of the car. Sliding the box forward any has resulted in as much as a 2db loss.

The next step for the T1 15s was to add more port but since our box size/shape wouldn't allow all the ports and subs to be on the same face the subs got pointed up and ports forward external. Some previous testing done with a pair of 12s in my Altima showed that firing subs & port up did the same as firing subs & port rear, but subs & port forward did better. It was this testing that led to the subs up & ports forward design. This setup has done a best of 145.4 on the dash with a single amp , 146.9 in the kick with a single amp, 147.7 on the dash w/ a pair of Sundown 1500s, and a 149.1 in the kick w/ a pair of Sundown 1500s.

I consider those some pretty decent trunk scores so its whats working well for us. Also keep in mind that this isn't a pure spl install. The box is 5.6ft and tuned to 35hz so it plays music just fine. Our next steps include trying out a little more port area and increasing tuning. The current short term goal is a 146 on the dash with a single amp and a 150 on the dash with a pair of amps.

5.6 cubes is a tad small for a pair of 15's IMO. If you want better scores I would suggest going with one 15" or 2 12's and doing a sub forward/port forward or sub forward/port side install. Then again, if #'s aren't your big concern then keep doing what you're doing I guess.

I did an install in my buddies cavalier with 2 crunch groundpounder 12's and a 20.1 running at 1 ohm (~1200 watts in his setup) and had it doing a 144+ on the dash in bassrace and on a burp. Also, it plays music very well.

Derrick824 · January 7, 2008

5.6 cubes is a tad small for a pair of 15's IMO. If you want better scores I would suggest going with one 15" or 2 12's and doing a sub forward/port forward or sub forward/port side install. Then again, if #'s aren't your big concern then keep doing what you're doing I guess.

With unlimited power i would agree, but the local comps use the 4ohm power rating and this car competes in the 0-500watt class. Given these circumstances we've seen better results with low power and more cone area.

banginAltima · January 7, 2008

test

Torres · January 7, 2008

Also i agree we're talking about actual power output not what the company puts on the amp. Just because they paste a 1000rms on it doesnt make it a 1k rms amp, its priced about the same as the Sundown, it outputs about the same as the sundown, i really dont see what the big thing is about it being such a big difference in comparison.

x2

I understand steves post about putting a rated 1k against a rated 1k.... or opposite a RF2000 vs a sundown 1000

But on that same tolken I can take a zenon amp and have it do 3000 watts stamp a 1000 watts on it and have it go up against a RF1000 watt amp and blow it away, at that point RF people will immediately point to the zenons ACTUAL power of 3K vs the RF 1.5K...

my thoughts exactly.

ignoring what they're 'rated' at, it's a very good test imo. and since it's not a contest between the two...we should just appreciate his time taken into doing the tests.

and if someone wants to send me a t30001 i'll be glad to do the tests with even 'rated' amps

banginAltima · January 7, 2008

i just wanna see 1500 compared to 1500 to make it fair.

and i'm not saying RF is any better than Sundown.but your comparing an amp that is suposed to do

a 1000 watts to an amp that is suposed to do 1500 and can reach lower ohm loads.compare the TK3

to the Sundown 3000D,they would be even better compared.

how is is not fair

sundown ---1510ish watts

rf--- 1490ish watts

doesn't get any closer

banginAltima · January 7, 2008

I'll start off with the more exciting test. A pair of Sundowns strapped @ 1ohm (o.5ohm each).

Car: 2005 Altima 3.5se

Head Unit: Pioneer

Subs: Two RF Power T115D4s

Box: 5.6ft w/ four 4" aeros tuned to 35hz (subs up, ports forward)

Burps were done at the cars peak of 41hz.

First hit was 147.7db. Thats a solid 2.3db gain over the previous best of 145.4db with a single amp and 2.5db gain over our average score of 145.2db. Current draw was whopping 472amps. The car is flexing like crazy and the trunk lid looks as if it wants to fly off.

This pic sort of looks like the Rockford is hiding from the Sundowns.

Of course we didn't test the RFs at this low an impedance but the pair had previously been tested @ 2ohms each. The T1K has an actual output of 1400-1500watts @ 1ohm and supposedly around 1000watts @ 2ohm so a pair was tested @ 2ohms each thinking they would be more efficient and give more power than a single T1K @ 1ohm. There was no change in score. Two T1Ks @ 2ohm each did the same thing as a single T1K @ 1ohm.

Now I know this test was a little unfair since the RFs can't run as low as the Sundowns but we're testing which amp will do better for us in competition and the pair of Sundowns win without a doubt. We also did some testing in the kick and hit 149.1db. Not bad for a trunk car. It also became obvious that under these conditions we need more batteries. This setup will be tested again once the four Optima G31s my brother & I ordered from the Parts Express sale get here. We're shooting for a 148+ on the dash and a 150+ in the kick.

Next test was a little more even head to head setup with the amps @ 1ohm each.

Car: 2006 GMC Yukon

Head Unit: stock Bose

Subs: Two Fi Bl Dual 2ohm 18s

Box: 13.75ft w/ 190" of port tuned to 32hz (subs up, port back)

Electrical: 160a alternator w/ a single Optima Red Top under the hood.

Burps were done at the cars peak of 41hz. I've changed the port in this box from my last setup so my scores weren't as good. My previous best was 147.9db.

First up were the Sundowns. They were setup one amp on each sub @ 1ohm. It hit 146.8db. Current draw was 338amps. Voltage dropped from 14.9 to 10.4.

The RF T1Ks were ran identical to the Sundowns, one amp on each sub @ 1ohm. They hit 146.5db. Current draw was 302amps. Voltage dropped from 14.9 to 10.6. Following tests dropped to 146.3db then 146.1db. Current draw also continued to drop down to 280amps. Volts were consistent with drops from 14.9 to 10.6 every time.

The Sundowns clearly pulled more power here but also efficiently put it to use with a score consistently .3db higher than the RF's best score. They also stayed consistent where as even though the RF's pulled less power they're scores got worse & worse each time. I normally run a pair of Yellow Tops in the back which would have helped greatly in this test but they were in my Explorer which my wife had at work. I don't doubt that these tests would have had slightly different results with them in place. Had the T1Ks had the power they wanted I believe they would have kept up better. For now though I'm still giving this win to the Sundown 1500Ds. This test will of course be revisited at a later date with more power. I still want to test the Sundowns strapped @ 0.5ohm (0.25ohm each) on my Bls but there wasn't any way I was doing it without a few extra batteries to help support the voltage.