Can a meter under $300 directly test watts?

[Brian617]

I've been reading a bit on this site, and am thrilled to find such a valuable resource. I have become interested in the efforts to accurately test amplifiers due to the common practice of manufacturers misrepresenting capabilities. I read a thread in the CE Auto Electric supply forum that states clamping an amp will not work for various reasons, notably only measuring VA as opposed to watts due to the absence of phase angle and power factor in the calculations of measurements in an amp driving a reactive load. I understand the Amp Dyno solves this by having the amp drive a purely resistive load. But how many of us would like to be able to directly measure output of different amps driving different speakers? CE states clamping is impossible without a clampable multimeter, o-scope, and in depth calculation. Also, at about $15 per 100w, dummy loads for testing could add up quick, as well as the complexity of wiring and switching for various loads.

I happened to find the following ACM-2353 1000 A AC/DC Clamp & Watt Meter which implies it directly measures reactive power with two test leads across the load and a clamp of one leg of the circuit (induced from info under the "application" tab on the product page). Does this mean the meter provides power measurements in watts of a single phase ac circuit with a reactive load, taking into account the phase angle between current and voltage across a coil? Or is all the talk of phase angle just related to the phase difference of voltage in a 3 phase power supply?

https://www.tmatlantic.com/e-store/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=2123

[g2shuck]

in for comments

[ChevyBoy95]

The absence of a phase angle calculation causes the waves to be offset and therefore take two accurate readings at different points in the wave causing inaccuracy... i think.

PLEASE SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG!!!!

[Dd9515 king]

I think wicks and me and a talk about clamping in another thread. I forgot what it was called or i would put a link in for ya.

[Wicks]

I've been reading a bit on this site, and am thrilled to find such a valuable resource. I have become interested in the efforts to accurately test amplifiers due to the common practice of manufacturers misrepresenting capabilities. I read a thread in the CE Auto Electric supply forum that states clamping an amp will not work for various reasons, notably only measuring VA as opposed to watts due to the absence of phase angle and power factor in the calculations of measurements in an amp driving a reactive load. I understand the Amp Dyno solves this by having the amp drive a purely resistive load. But how many of us would like to be able to directly measure output of different amps driving different speakers? CE states clamping is impossible without a clampable multimeter, o-scope, and in depth calculation. Also, at about $15 per 100w, dummy loads for testing could add up quick, as well as the complexity of wiring and switching for various loads.

I happened to find the following ACM-2353 1000 A AC/DC Clamp & Watt Meter which implies it directly measures reactive power with two test leads across the load and a clamp of one leg of the circuit (induced from info under the "application" tab on the product page). Does this mean the meter provides power measurements in watts of a single phase ac circuit with a reactive load, taking into account the phase angle between current and voltage across a coil? Or is all the talk of phase angle just related to the phase difference of voltage in a 3 phase power supply?

https://www.tmatlantic.com/e-store/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=2123

I think wicks and me and a talk about clamping in another thread. I forgot what it was called or i would put a link in for ya.

WOW, this thing advertises that it calculates phase angle...

Phase angle is the delay between the voltage and current. Voltage Phase difference in a 3-phase system should be pretty solid at 120 degrees.

If that is indeed true, then this tool might be handy at actually measuring real power as opposed to complex power.

Somebody needs to pick one of these up and comparing it to some o-scope measurements.

One drawback that I saw in the manual was that its frequency range was only from 50-200Hz.

Many people would like power numbers below 50Hz especially with all the test tone discs set to 40Hz.

The AD-1 is still the choice for equipment if you want to truly see what your amplifier is capable of but this might be handy to see what it does on a reactive load.

I'd be curious at Tony D's thoughts on a reasonably priced handheld like this?

[Brian617]

I've been reading a bit on this site, and am thrilled to find such a valuable resource. I have become interested in the efforts to accurately test amplifiers due to the common practice of manufacturers misrepresenting capabilities. I read a thread in the CE Auto Electric supply forum that states clamping an amp will not work for various reasons, notably only measuring VA as opposed to watts due to the absence of phase angle and power factor in the calculations of measurements in an amp driving a reactive load. I understand the Amp Dyno solves this by having the amp drive a purely resistive load. But how many of us would like to be able to directly measure output of different amps driving different speakers? CE states clamping is impossible without a clampable multimeter, o-scope, and in depth calculation. Also, at about $15 per 100w, dummy loads for testing could add up quick, as well as the complexity of wiring and switching for various loads.

I happened to find the following ACM-2353 1000 A AC/DC Clamp & Watt Meter which implies it directly measures reactive power with two test leads across the load and a clamp of one leg of the circuit (induced from info under the "application" tab on the product page). Does this mean the meter provides power measurements in watts of a single phase ac circuit with a reactive load, taking into account the phase angle between current and voltage across a coil? Or is all the talk of phase angle just related to the phase difference of voltage in a 3 phase power supply?

https://www.tmatlantic.com/e-store/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=2123

I think wicks and me and a talk about clamping in another thread. I forgot what it was called or i would put a link in for ya.

WOW, this thing advertises that it calculates phase angle...

Phase angle is the delay between the voltage and current. Voltage Phase difference in a 3-phase system should be pretty solid at 120 degrees.

If that is indeed true, then this tool might be handy at actually measuring real power as opposed to complex power.

Somebody needs to pick one of these up and comparing it to some o-scope measurements.

One drawback that I saw in the manual was that its frequency range was only from 50-200Hz.

Many people would like power numbers below 50Hz especially with all the test tone discs set to 40Hz.

The AD-1 is still the choice for equipment if you want to truly see what your amplifier is capable of but this might be handy to see what it does on a reactive load.

I'd be curious at Tony D's thoughts on a reasonably priced handheld like this?

This one specifies 20hz-500hz:

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/72-10445&scode=GS401&CAWELAID=1555815317?catargetid=1391612099&cagpspn=pla&gclid=COXrhvCuiLoCFXBo7AodxVwAIg

[Wicks]

I've been reading a bit on this site, and am thrilled to find such a valuable resource. I have become interested in the efforts to accurately test amplifiers due to the common practice of manufacturers misrepresenting capabilities. I read a thread in the CE Auto Electric supply forum that states clamping an amp will not work for various reasons, notably only measuring VA as opposed to watts due to the absence of phase angle and power factor in the calculations of measurements in an amp driving a reactive load. I understand the Amp Dyno solves this by having the amp drive a purely resistive load. But how many of us would like to be able to directly measure output of different amps driving different speakers? CE states clamping is impossible without a clampable multimeter, o-scope, and in depth calculation. Also, at about $15 per 100w, dummy loads for testing could add up quick, as well as the complexity of wiring and switching for various loads.

I happened to find the following ACM-2353 1000 A AC/DC Clamp & Watt Meter which implies it directly measures reactive power with two test leads across the load and a clamp of one leg of the circuit (induced from info under the "application" tab on the product page). Does this mean the meter provides power measurements in watts of a single phase ac circuit with a reactive load, taking into account the phase angle between current and voltage across a coil? Or is all the talk of phase angle just related to the phase difference of voltage in a 3 phase power supply?

https://www.tmatlantic.com/e-store/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=2123

I think wicks and me and a talk about clamping in another thread. I forgot what it was called or i would put a link in for ya.

WOW, this thing advertises that it calculates phase angle...

Phase angle is the delay between the voltage and current. Voltage Phase difference in a 3-phase system should be pretty solid at 120 degrees.

If that is indeed true, then this tool might be handy at actually measuring real power as opposed to complex power.

Somebody needs to pick one of these up and comparing it to some o-scope measurements.

One drawback that I saw in the manual was that its frequency range was only from 50-200Hz.

Many people would like power numbers below 50Hz especially with all the test tone discs set to 40Hz.

The AD-1 is still the choice for equipment if you want to truly see what your amplifier is capable of but this might be handy to see what it does on a reactive load.

I'd be curious at Tony D's thoughts on a reasonably priced handheld like this?

This one specifies 20hz-500hz:

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/72-10445&scode=GS401&CAWELAID=1555815317?catargetid=1391612099&cagpspn=pla&gclid=COXrhvCuiLoCFXBo7AodxVwAIg

Nice find!

I'm going to look into one of these.

Looks like a fun tool to play around with.

[LoudBimmer]

AD-1 is accurate and cool, but paying $2800 to test your amp....

[Kyblack76]

A meter that cost 13$ can see watts.

The testing your talkin about, data info, involves more.

[Brian617]

This one says 5hz to 500hz, but for the extra 100 adds in THD %. So maybe you could tell when you hit 1%, %5, 10% etc.

http://www.valuetesters.com/amprobe-acd-41pq-power-quality-clamp-on-meter.html?gclid=CPeiieLciLoCFcFj7AodunEAmQ