Shop said they dont use DD1 or Oscope to tune. they do it by ear. Should i trust them?

[poorfish88]

I can understand that using equipment may be best for gain matching two amps that do not strap. But other than that ear and senses has always been the way I have set all gains. I bought a DD-1 and used it twice. The first time was using it to set the gains on my 5500's and my PWX 150.4. The 5500's ended up exactly where I had had them set previously by ear. The 4 channel had to be backed down because if I used the settings it told me to I would have smoked the tweeters because the amp was rated at much more power than the tweeters would allow. The second time was used on a seperate install that the gains had to be backed down or it would have over powered the subs the person had so after that I sold it because I didnt see the need for the DD1. Maybe for setting the headunit max volume but I have always used the 80% rule when doing that. Head unit maxes out at say volume 62, well I would set gains with it at the 52-55 mark.

For the guys that preach these devices what do you all do in that case? You have a component set rated at 75rms, but you have a 150rms 4 channel, are you still taking the gains to full potential based on your DD1 or are you using a true rms clamp meter to set voltage?

The old 80 percent rule, LULZ... I have a Kenwood Excelon deck starts clipping at 25 out of 35. Guess what happened to one of my mids and later tweet, when I used the same idea and used 80% deck max, yepper blown. Retune with the DD1 no more blown mids, and they are a hellva alot louder. Less clicks on the deck, but I was being a pussy with the gain on the amp. Not realizing it was the decks dirty power when I would turn it to 28 not the amps gain being too high.

So you didn't hear that they were getting too much power, smell anything weird? Offcourse you did, probably just ignored it.

Setting gains by ear(+eyes+nose) is a very good way. The only difficulty is that it requires brains and common sense to work properly.

Using a device only makes people work like a robot, do 1 thing that is asked of it to do correctly, but it can oversee so many other things.

No u can't always hear it and it's not about hearing if they are getting too much power it's about a clean signal. And no one can hear that and that's a fact

See how I said : "Setting gains by ear(+eyes+nose)"

Your eyes will tell you if there is too much excursion, your nose will tell you if you go beyond the thermal limit and the ears will tell you if it sounds bad or if something is stressed.(like the suspension,....)

Clean signal isn't that important since no signal is clean unless you only play test tones.

I stated what happened exactly as it happened, so all your snide comments. Like you didn't smell anything wierd and it takes brains and common sense can STFU. I must be the only person to ever blow at tweet with the tried and true (ear, eyes, and nose) method. Troll someone else Kirill007.

[gr8handogoatness]

Setting gains is not an art, it is in fact a science. Making music is an art, reproducing it is a science. I don't know why its so difficult to understand."Using a device only makes people work like a robot, " Using a device to "Calibrate" another device is the right way not a robot. That doesn't even make sense. I wish car audio required brains and common sense, or at least access to this site.

You want a clean signal, why? Well that way you don't introduce stuff that isn't there. If the recording has distortion you for sure don't want to add to it. Setting gains by ear+eyes+nose is not a very good way. It is the wrong way. The ear+eyes+nose method is used after the gains are set and you are playing songs that are not clean. If you hear see or smell something goofy you turn it down. If you have decently recorded stuff that will never happen. Unless you are grossly overpowering your stuff it will be fine all the way to clipping.

Setting gains without an O-scope/DD-1 is literally just guessing. You can make and educated guess, but its still a guess. Why would you risk making a guess when its so easy to just do it right and get it exact.

If you set gains by ear and have had luck thats fine. I'm glad its working for you and that you're happy. Don't try to mislead other into thinking that you doing it makes it right. All of these "ear" guys that are defending setting gains by ear are really just too proud to admit they are doing it wrong. Its fine if you are, its better than just cranking the knob up max like some people do. If you truly believe you are doing it right then you are under-educated on the matter and need to do more research. Obviously you don't design, or even fully understand the design and workings of an amplifier. Those that do use O-scopes and DD-1s.

All I'm trying to say is that It doesn't matter to me if you want to use your ears etc to set gains. Just don't come on here and try to defend it like you know better than the engineers designing the stuff. Don't try to convince people to follow your foolish ways. Realize its wrong and if you decide to do it, thats fine, as long as you know its wrong. I drive 80 in a 75 every day. I know that I'm speeding and understand that I could get a ticket. I still do it though, even with that knowledge. I don't tell other people that they should drive 80 though.

[White Lightning]

Not one word in this ENTIRE thread about the best way to gain an amplifier ... and that's for HEADROOM.

Nowadays, poeple want ther gains up so high that it's to the very near point of distortion. Sad Really.

You want more power ... buy a stronger amplifier. Simple

The best set up is a "No Gain" amplifier build as far as I'm concerned. Amplifiers large enough to literally melt the components / drivers / subs if need be. but yet, give the cleanest sound possible without distortion ...

Guess I'm just too old school to know any different.

[kingsuv]

Headroom is a whole different topic in its self. When the majority on here want crazy loud. if you are buying a 9k you aren't doing it for headroom

[gr8handogoatness]

Not one word in this ENTIRE thread about the best way to gain an amplifier ... and that's for HEADROOM.

Nowadays, poeple want ther gains up so high that it's to the very near point of distortion. Sad Really.

You want more power ... buy a stronger amplifier. Simple

The best set up is a "No Gain" amplifier build as far as I'm concerned. Amplifiers large enough to literally melt the components / drivers / subs if need be. but yet, give the cleanest sound possible without distortion ...

Guess I'm just too old school to know any different.

Dude I'm just gonna throw this out there for you:

I've always tuned by ear. Bthen again, I tune for headroom ... not for clipping.

And I've NEVER blown a driver or amplifier.

So it all depends on the application of the install ...

your my bro and all but that doesn't make any sense.

tuning for headroom IS "tuning for clipping"....

the whole point of matching the amp gain to the decks MAXIMUM clean output is headroom.

now im gonna put a smiley face in so you don't think i was being rude. Just telling it like it is

Just because you say it twice still doesn't make you right.

I give up...

[White Lightning]

Dude I'm just gonna throw this out there for you:

I know brother, my mistake. was typing this post.

I stand corrected from my last post. Steve did.

I've always tuned by ear. Bthen again, I tune for headroom ... not for clipping.

And I've NEVER blown a driver or amplifier.

So it all depends on the application of the install ...

your my bro and all but that doesn't make any sense.

tuning for headroom IS "tuning for clipping"....

the whole point of matching the amp gain to the decks MAXIMUM clean output is headroom.

now im gonna put a smiley face in so you don't think i was being rude. Just telling it like it is

Nothing rude, I understand your point.

Just that from the years of nothing but Sound Quality competition, I've learned that the less gain used ... the better the headroom, dynamics, and the sence of raw power in the vehicle. Got tons of comments over the demo years in the truck about the true power and dynamics it had. Louder vehicles than mine? definately ... But not in the SQ lanes with the amount of Bass that I had along with very competitive scores in SQ.

Headroom is a whole different topic in its self. When the majority on here want crazy loud. if you are buying a 9k you aren't doing it for headroom

I agree with you Sir, but in the very first post of this thread ... the OP only has a pair of 12s and never was specific about "crazy loud" ... and the thread took off from there in several different directions.

Just because you say it twice still doesn't make you right.

I do not think I was wrong, just didn't see Steve's post.

If you think I was wrong ... please explain.

[kingsuv]

Being an SQ competitor myself I understand where you are coming from with headroom. I too use amps of way greater power then needed for my system. I too can and have set my system by experience to a safe level for the application. In fact, there has been plenty of times where my "guess" has been on point with a scope or dd1. Does it mean I should go and promote it as the correct way to set gains for the general public? Hell no. Typical ground pounder wants the most boom for the buck. Which means pushing gains to their peak. ONLY way to achieve that is with the proper tools. Just because you can use a Crescent wrench to turn every bolt on your car, doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. Just because you can use a mike crate as a jack stand, doesn't mean it's the correct way to support a car.

[White Lightning]

Just for the record guys. I use my ear when tuning.

However ... I have never once said anything bad about the DD-1 products or any other tuning products for that matter.

Just want you guys to know this.

Most people that set gains every day know how to do their job cause "that's what they do" ... know what I mean ??

My dad for example ... Built SOO many engines in his mechanic career that he did not need a troque wrench to torque head bolts on an engine. He knew what he was doing.

I do things as a Cable Guy thet most rookies use test equipment for ...

Yes, you have a great product. I'm not denying that at all. Please understand this.

[BigManAC]

I do small time installing for friends and people that live near me that are just getting into car audio and want help. I've only done about 14 installs on different vehicles but I still have a DD-1 bc I know with that tool I will get it right everytime. I don't want to put brand new equipment in someone's car that they have worked hard for and not set levels correctly and it go up in smoke and I'm to blame. If I (a broke college student) can afford a DD-1 then any respectable shop should have an o-scope of some type. So no you shouldn't and I would go somewhere else.

My 0.02

[Travis Retrum]

I do small time installing for friends and people that live near me that are just getting into car audio and want help. I've only done about 14 installs on different vehicles but I still have a DD-1 bc I know with that tool I will get it right everytime. I don't want to put brand new equipment in someone's car that they have worked hard for and not set levels correctly and it go up in smoke and I'm to blame. If I (a broke college student) can afford a DD-1 then any respectable shop should have an o-scope of some type. So no you shouldn't and I would go somewhere else.

My 0.02

I completely agree with this. Even if your only doing it for yourself why would u wanna take the chance on guessing on something that u spent money on. Do u just guess what kind of oil u put in ur car. Do u just guess how much air u put in ur tires? Anyway I think im done with this post. It doesn't matter what anyone says anyway. Some people just won't listen.