Shiv Posted May 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Nobody's mad and I can post pictures of ferraris and focal too doesn't mean I did shit with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Storlie Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 this is just my $.02 but it seems that if you legitimately have worked with focals and Ferrari's that as an installer, you should know what your installing. how can you sell speakers that you know nothing about... "hey this cost more, get this one..." im no expert and ill admit that all day long, but it seems obvious that any shop, no matter the product. needs to know what, and how to use the products they have. and if you dont know the product then only do what you know... im not gonna sell make-up to girls cause i know shit about it. again just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broke_Audio_Addict Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Let's all sit back and listen to his infinite wisdom and years worth of knowledge he's going to share. Oh wait he has shared nothing. Only the fact that he wants to pretend like he's something. Focal 3 way's but has cheap ass re subs yeah ok. Trolllllllllll. That being said a lot of people's definition of "music" is a clipped 30 hz sine wave with some 80 IQ knuckle head grunting about committing crimes and his genitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiv Posted May 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 ok ok. In all seriousness. We all know that 500 8's can out spl 1 15. SQ is a thing I hear a lot. What SQ are we really talking about at >80hz? Sure at 1000k there is a clear difference. Theres a lot of work to be done from a mid range at a very large spectrum. At low frequency, the job is to move a lot of air, very slowly/ There is a substantual about of room for error (you like the pun). from my experience, the lack of sq in a sub comes from the inability to produce the higher end of the bass spectrum. As I have mention before. Pro woofers are typically stamped with paper cones. They are also used at higher frequencies with lower wattage to produce a better sound. Why is the market so against a tried and true practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_paralyzed_ Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Not nearly as much as people here like to admit, but they have to take that position to justify the cost of what they spent on equipment in their heads. My first "loud" system (to me) was the buy 1 get 1 free series 1 Rockford Fosgate 15"s back in the mid 90's. $75 a piece. I shit all over people that spent way more than me because I built proper boxes and paid attention to setup. If you look at scores at competitions, there really isn't that large of gap in db's from the 1000 watt classes and the 10,000 watt classes. The lower watt classes have people focusing on build and details and the higher watt classes have people just throwing money in their system to get numbers. (of course I am generalizing, this isn't true across the entire community)Don't get me wrong, an Ascendant Audio SMD V2 is far superior than an entry level sub in build quality, power handling and technological advances. At the end of the day someone unfamiliar with audio really won't hear much of a difference between a $1,000 system and a $10,000 system. It all comes down to your interest in the hobby and how much disposable income you feel like throwing into it. It's been proven time and time again in blind listening tests with people extremely familiar with audio can't tell what the expensive equipment is and what the cheap equipment is. They can hear differences, but cannot discern the "high end" equipment. All that being said, a $75 driver from a manufacturer like rockford will be far superior to a $75 driver from say legacy or other flea market brands. In the end I feel doing some research and using a lower priced speaker from a reputable manufacturer can really give a lot of performance to someone looking to save money yet have an awesome system. We are on the SMD forums though, and many here are all out bat shit crazy for audio and don't really see cost as a limiting factor, they want the best of the best. Earlier tonight though, I looked up the Zapco 26k and day dreamed about hooking up 4 AA SMD V2's to it. If I had the money I'd spend it, but I don't so I write long drawn out responses like this defending cheaper stuff. To each their own. You can get where you're going in a civic or a ferrari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Storlie Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 ok ok. In all seriousness. We all know that 500 8's can out spl 1 15. SQ is a thing I hear a lot. What SQ are we really talking about at >80hz? Sure at 1000k there is a clear difference. Theres a lot of work to be done from a mid range at a very large spectrum. At low frequency, the job is to move a lot of air, very slowly/ There is a substantual about of room for error (you like the pun). from my experience, the lack of sq in a sub comes from the inability to produce the higher end of the bass spectrum. As I have mention before. Pro woofers are typically stamped with paper cones. They are also used at higher frequencies with lower wattage to produce a better sound. Why is the market so against a tried and true practice? inability to produce the higher end of the bass spectrum... usually thats all do to the box its in. bose uses cheap ass $2 paper speakers and can fill a house with good bass and SQ... but they use highly engineered boxes, usually with t-lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyBoy95 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 You know what... I will answer you, even though I think you are full of shit... Cost of a product is in a few things, material, build cost (labor), and R&D, mainly. 1. There are different grades of ferrite, even though most use the same, some use neo (very expensive) 2. If you have a mass production basket or a custom tooled basket (tooling is very expensive) 3. Material and how the cone is made, whether carbon fiber, pressed paper pulp, etc. 4. Material and type of suspension, whether it is 1 spider or 5 spiders, spaced spiders or not, spider OD as well 5. Coil type, whether copper or aluminum, flatwound or roundwire, ceramic coated, former cooling, etc. 6. Build Quality and QC, how well a company/builder builds the product, from glue joints, to cleanliness, to the special way they do things that might give an edge for thermal handling or durability 7. Customer Service, self explanatory.... 8. Size of the product, aka more material to use. 9. Engineering so to speak, company A and company B build subs (say each company's woofer is 150 bucks to build), Company A builds with the same amount of material (weight), same coil size, spiders, etc, but say uses slightly different motor venting than company B to increase cooling over company B. Company A's woofer is 350 bucks, company B's is 300. (sort of falls back on #6 and R&D in the real world) 1) Are we ready to beak down the scientifics of the magnetic field? 2) Yes and no. Custom tooling has its own flaws but how much of this is actually imprtant on the final product? 3) Pro audio drivers have been using paper for decades 4) yep 5) yep 6) if you want to excede the specifications, sure 7) they all suck sooner or later. Yeah Fu(k you re audio see 7 9) technology really hasnt changed in the past 100 years. We are really looking into build quaility. Which is important, don't get me wrong. The points you list indicate that you are being built a handmade, overbuilt custom driver. Thats great. Now how do this sq/spl numbers/ reliability really compare? I'm not talking about some lanzar/pyle (insert whatever sh!tty brand is still around) I'm talking Boston/kicker/polk/alpine/soundstream (are they even any good anymore or did they get maxxsoniced?) midrange market. 1. I could if you wanted me to.... lol(EE/CE Student) 2. You were talking about price, so yes, it factors into COST, which was the basis of your original question. 3. I know paper cones have been used for years and years, but there are different manufacturing methods and composition of these paper cones (I'm not talking about the flimsy PA mid cones) 9. Technology hasn't changed, I didn't say it did, engineering is designing and building at its core, which companies do change regularly. Best Score to Date : 160.5 dB Outlaw (47Hz)[4 XM 15's & 2 Taramps Bass 12k's] BL : http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/147800-chevyboy95s-4-15s-7krms-wall-1533-db-on-half-power/YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/hitemwiththeflex/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broke_Audio_Addict Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 So subs don't need to have a low moving Mass good amount of motor force or how about have high efficiency or low inductance or maybe linearity for sq purposes? Hmmmmmm............ School us sensai. That being said a lot of people's definition of "music" is a clipped 30 hz sine wave with some 80 IQ knuckle head grunting about committing crimes and his genitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiv Posted May 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Dear god, Did I just defend bose? I've always enjoyed being stopped and asked "what subs are you running" then seeing the confused look on their face when they have no idea why I didn't mention some 5000 watt flea marked setup but at the same time, I've installed Sonys thet kicked my ass. Quality is easier to recognize as the frequency increases. At the subwoofer range, Tuning and a good crossover point can eliminate most of a subwoofers shortcomings. Shortcomings that a subwoofer should really not be exposed to. Midranged drivers can produce clean lows/highs while leaving a sub to do the job it is suited for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe X Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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