audiofanaticz Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Im still sketchy about them for daily use as someone with 1200 amps of alternator power, and charging restrictions of 200-500 amps per battery doesn't cut it for me. Ive seen a lot of Juice Box batteries fail, and people that switched out for another brand. Also heard of 1 competitor trying JY Power but gained over a db with a popular brand agm that is not lithium. I do like the weight savings, but for that alone I dont feel it being worth while yet for me. Id rather dabble with super caps first with a medium sized battery bank. I remember when XS Power had lithiums about 6 years ago now, and you needed special chargers and this and that and had a max charge rate of something like 20amps. Im sure the tech grew since then a bit however, but Im still sketchy. Even if I was giving a free XS Power XS30K to review evaluate test and return it back to them I wouldnt trust it in my vehicle just as of yet (nothing against the XS brand, I run their batteries. Everything is against the battery type to be 100% clear). Id be afraid of it blowing up like a Brazilian amp.But that is just my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH8PunkRok Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I can't speak for others but my batteries are safe up to a 3C charge rate which is 270 amps per battery or 1080 amps total. However, they do recommend heat monitoring at that point. They say to charge at 0.5C for the initial charge after that it isn't nearly as picky. I also use a passive bms to keep the cells balanced properly Forgot to mention I only use lithium in my daily. Nothing else -Matt2005 Dodge Magnum RTJVC KD-AVX1 2 PPI S580.2 Obsidian Audio ST1 Horn Tweeters PRV 8MB450s Audio Legion 3500.1D 2 RE MT 18s 360 ah LiFePO4 BatterySHCA 2/0 155.2 @ 29 hzKicker CVR 15's buildDD 3512e buildMini T-Line Build(6) 8s BuildNightshade 15s Wall BuildMagnum AB XFL 12s BuildNewest Magnum Build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo1 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 What about one of these http://www.jegs.com/i/Lithium-Pros/403/C925/10002/-1 Looks like a decent price compared to others I might be in the market for a lithium battery. Was going to go with a couple agms but I would love to keep weight down for a daily that already gets terrible gas mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofanaticz Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 What about one of these http://www.jegs.com/i/Lithium-Pros/403/C925/10002/-1 Looks like a decent price compared to others I might be in the market for a lithium battery. Was going to go with a couple agms but I would love to keep weight down for a daily that already gets terrible gas mileage. No, because those batteries do not contain any battery management software, there is nothing in them for safety. *Note: The C series does not include a battery management system. Care should be taken not to over-charge or over-discharge these batteries to above 14.4V or below 10.5V. Damage of this nature is not covered under the pro-rated C series warranty. C series batteries should never be ran in parallel. Not to mention these batteries are cheaper in price because they are like 1/3 the size of other batteries that we are using for audio systems. That brand is technically XS Power, but not XS Power. When XS Power had made Lithium batteries around 6 years ago they ended up selling the lithium off to another local company, that company is Lithium Pros. From 2010 From 2011 http://powerelectronics.com/power-electronics-systems/lithium-technology-comes-car-batteries If you read Lithium Pros bio on the about us page: [quote[Lithium Pros was established in March 2011. However, in a sense, we are not new to racing. The management team here has been involved with racing for over 20 years, developing Powermaster™ from its inception as well as XS Power™. Lithium Pros™ purchased all the intellectual property of XS Power relating to its lithium battery operations and continues the development of those award winning former products of XS Power. Another thing to keep in mind that "Lithium" is a very loose term as there are different types of Lithium. These Lithium Pro batteries are Lithium Ion batteries. Juice Box Lithium batteries are Lithium Iron Phosphate. LiFePO4 No idea what type batteries the XS Power are since they do not disclose that but if one had to guess it would be lithium ion since the XS Power Lithium batteries are Made in USA and would assume that they are made by Lithium Pros to order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tboorn Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 you beat me to the punch i had that typed out yesterday but figured you knew your stuff so didnt want to seem condescending. the type of lithium in the ones we are using now, LiFePO4, which is different from the ones weve come accustom to that "explode" or catch on fire, these are much safer and have almost no chance of detonation. i would think the new XS power lithiums that are car audio based would have to be the same since they have high recharge rates and crazy discharge rates Fidelity Built to Last Team Sound Asleep 24Runner Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/196657-24runner-sleeper-system-lots-of-fi-neo-dd-focal-new-video-w-juicebox-lithium/ 2 x 12" Fi BTL N2 / 2 x 12" Fi BTL N3 2 DD M3b Maxwell 2.7V 3000F Supercapacitors Pioneer DEH-80prs Focal P165 V30 components Rockford Fosgate T-400.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofanaticz Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Well the Lithium Pros clearly state Lithium Ion all over their site, and since the XS Power Lithium batteries are built in the usa (typically built to order and to allow 2-4 weeks for delivery according to some web retailers). I think its a no brainer that Lithium Pros are building the XS Power batteries. Which if that is the case you would have to assume once again that they are lithium ion. I know XS Power likes to be hush hush on certain battery specs of their batteries. Like if you tried to find out the actual internal resistance of their specific battery they will give you some off the trail type answer such as "our batteries have some of the lowest internal resistance on the market, the only other brand close to ours are the Stinger batteries" Funny thing is Im not even making that up either because I remember someone once asking and that was the response (granted this was the time frame of the old D3100 batteries that had a strap for the handle and were only 3100 max amps). That being said, withholding the battery type is a no bueno for me because you need to know that stuff, period! In one of their blogs from last year they talk about "We do not suggest the use of lithium batteries in daily driven applications without this important safety precaution in place". - http://4xspower.com/tag/lithium-batteries/ What kind of precaution do you need in place?? A fire extinguisher? A fire/bomb proof battery box? Like really... Now regardless of the type lithium being used Im still not even close to being willing to put one in my vehicle.I seen a picture of sancheeezy pop up in my feed that he was removing his jucebox lithiums and going to xs power d3400 agms.. I found that odd. I also believe he is another user that had a few issues with juice box in the past with his cases falling apart or something...Im not trying to diss any brand in any way, but I just feel there is a lot of miss or hidden information being left out here. And in case if anyone is wondering about lithium ion batteries exploding just look at your favorite hoover boards doodads, or the exploding Samsung cellphone batteries that explode from being plugged in over night on the charger, or because a girl fell alseep with her phone under her pillow and the phone got hot the battery burst.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH8PunkRok Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Honestly the "big" brand batteries overestimate the capabilities of their batteries. I'm sorry but a 40ah battery cannot hold 15k. Don't advertise it like that. Also as far as safety goes https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zpQmc2IUobs Give that a watch. They do some really dumb stuff to that lithium battery -Matt2005 Dodge Magnum RTJVC KD-AVX1 2 PPI S580.2 Obsidian Audio ST1 Horn Tweeters PRV 8MB450s Audio Legion 3500.1D 2 RE MT 18s 360 ah LiFePO4 BatterySHCA 2/0 155.2 @ 29 hzKicker CVR 15's buildDD 3512e buildMini T-Line Build(6) 8s BuildNightshade 15s Wall BuildMagnum AB XFL 12s BuildNewest Magnum Build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiofanaticz Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 That 15000watt of power is a rating at a 5second burst, not continuous. While that same battery is only rated for 7500 watts continuous. As for the video you linked, that is a LiFePO4 not a lithium ion. I already know that they are safer than the traditional lithium ion style batteries. No need to watch the video. tboorn, I just noticed this, but if you actually look at the XS Power lithium batteries, right on the label they say lithium ion. As for the JY Powers, I have no idea what type Lithiums they are, nothing that I can find on their facebook page nor their website. Ih8punkrok, what are "your" batteries that you are making/slangin/using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubNDodge Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 when they shorted it out, did they really get 1000A out of that battery? damnnn '01 Dodge Stratass Sealed Trunk Build Log 2008 Honda Fit Sport Build Log On 10/3/2013 at 10:00 AM, ROLEXrifleman said: Anyone who says they knew everything they wanted out of life at 19 can go suck a bag of dicks cause they are lying to themselves or brought up in a cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH8PunkRok Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 That 15000watt of power is a rating at a 5second burst, not continuous. While that same battery is only rated for 7500 watts continuous. As for the video you linked, that is a LiFePO4 not a lithium ion. I already know that they are safer than the traditional lithium ion style batteries. No need to watch the video. tboorn, I just noticed this, but if you actually look at the XS Power lithium batteries, right on the label they say lithium ion. As for the JY Powers, I have no idea what type Lithiums they are, nothing that I can find on their facebook page nor their website. Ih8punkrok, what are "your" batteries that you are making/slangin/using? Li ion is old technology. Don't care about it. I use a lifepo4 just like the one in that video. Capable of a 10C discharge for 15 seconds. 3C continuous. You want to see the future of lithium? Lithium titanate. They can handle your massive charging system with ease -Matt2005 Dodge Magnum RTJVC KD-AVX1 2 PPI S580.2 Obsidian Audio ST1 Horn Tweeters PRV 8MB450s Audio Legion 3500.1D 2 RE MT 18s 360 ah LiFePO4 BatterySHCA 2/0 155.2 @ 29 hzKicker CVR 15's buildDD 3512e buildMini T-Line Build(6) 8s BuildNightshade 15s Wall BuildMagnum AB XFL 12s BuildNewest Magnum Build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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