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Lifepo4 vs Lto


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Which would you prefer for lithium. I got a 64 ah lifepo4 (headway) in one vehicle and got a 80ah lifepo4 (headway) going in another. Never delt with lto. One of my buddies is switching to lithium from agm. Hes got a 400 mechman alt with adjustable voltage, 450 ah of xs power agm, 2 sundown nightshade 12s on 2 saz 3500s, wireed to 7k at 2 ohm. We are looking to build a lithium bank to run it. I can build a  128Ah headway Lifepo4 battery for  $600/$700. 

Edited by killerc998
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  • killerc998 changed the title to Lifepo4 vs Lto

Well, I don't know everything about the 2 chemistries, but I'll share what I've learned. 

Both have their pros and cons.

LifePo4 has a faster discharge/ charge rate than LTO. Also, they say you can link LifePo4 cells with AGM because the resting voltages are so close (though they still recommend you use a battery isolator). Though LifePo4 seems to be less stable than LTO and more prone to catastrophic failure (though with advances in LifePo4 technology used in car audio, this failure rate has drastically fallen). Also, if you're planning on charging higher than 14.8 volts, that can damage the LifePo4 cells and cut the lifespan of the cells down quite a bit, quite quickly. 

LTO likes a higher charging voltage, which in turn means more power. They say they're safer than LifePo4. LTO has a slower discharge to charge rate than LifePo4, but it's still a ton faster than AGM. They suggest absolutely not using LTO with other chemistries. 

Hope that helps. If I think of anything I forgot, I'll post that as well

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) - higher energy density, lower cost/wh, wider assortment of form factors. Nominal voltage of 3.3vpc, with cutoff/termination voltages at 2.5/3.6v.

Lithium Titanate (LTO) - lower energy density, bulkier, higher cost/wh. Will accept tremendously high charge/discharge loads relative to their capacity. Very high cycle count. Form factors are limited. Nominal voltage of 2.3vpc, with cutoff/termination voltages at 1.5/2.8v.

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Sounds like lifepo for the win

06 Charger

Pioneer double din

Pioneer 6.5 and 6×9's

Knukoncept Krystal kable rca's

0 ga knukoncept kolossus wire 

Big 3 same wire ^ 1 run 

8g karma ss speaker wire

Sundown sia 3500d at 1ohm

2 Sundown U series 12's

Duralast platinum agm H7 (Main)

Xs power d3400

Trying to find a ho alt

 

 

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3 hours ago, Never Enough Bass said:

Sounds like lifepo for the win

Wouldn't even say for the win. They're just different beasts altogether.

To SUPER simplify it:

LiFePO4 is closer to a battery (energy density nearly double LTO)

LTO is closer to a capacitor - high draw / high charge capabilities, ridiculously high cycle count.


I avoided making any product recommendations... But tbh, for car audio beating, I'd probably veer to LTO if costs and space allow. IMO, it's a bit more suited for handling the high draw / high charge demands and cycle counts associated with our applications. Should see a better product lifetime. This is, assuming, you'll be playing with the car on.

If you want to park at a show, go engine off, and beat on the thing for an hour or 2, then I'd just toss together an 800+ah LiFePO4 bank. Else, LTO go brrrr



Some edits as I'm still waking up:

But this assumes equal opportunity to both product varieties.  It sounds like OP has good access to LiFePO4 cells which presents a pretty compelling cost argument. 128ah lithium iron phosphate battery for 700 bucks? Dude, you'd have to be insane to stick your nose up at that. Do it. DO IT.

Also, that key word... Build... Please, PLEASE get familiar with lithium chemistry and pitfalls. Use an externally regulated alt. Do NOT EVER over charge them. Use a BMS - make sure cells are balanced. You'll get good lifetime out of the things if you go easy on charging and stop short of full charge voltage - 80-90% SOC, as opposed to 100. If you're in a cold climate, insulate the things. Maybe install a heater in the pack so they don't freeze. Don't forget ventilation for the hot months as heat realllllly reduces lifetime of these things.

Feel free to post back here or DM me if you have questions on this stuff. I have a fair bit of experience tinkering with the stuff. I was dicking around with lithium before it was cool lmao

Also, Dafaseles, love you buddy, but I think you jumbled some info on your assessment :P 

Edited by SnowDrifter
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Been thinking about making my charger go lithium 

06 Charger

Pioneer double din

Pioneer 6.5 and 6×9's

Knukoncept Krystal kable rca's

0 ga knukoncept kolossus wire 

Big 3 same wire ^ 1 run 

8g karma ss speaker wire

Sundown sia 3500d at 1ohm

2 Sundown U series 12's

Duralast platinum agm H7 (Main)

Xs power d3400

Trying to find a ho alt

 

 

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10 minutes ago, SnowDrifter said:

Wouldn't even say for the win. They're just different beasts altogether.

To SUPER simplify it:

LiFePO4 is closer to a battery (energy density nearly double LTO)

LTO is closer to a capacitor - high draw / high charge capabilities, ridiculously high cycle count.


I avoided making any product recommendations... But tbh, for car audio beating, I'd probably veer to LTO if costs and space allow. IMO, it's a bit more suited for handling the high draw / high charge demands and cycle counts associated with our applications. Should see a better product lifetime. This is, assuming, you'll be playing with the car on.

If you want to park at a show, go engine off, and beat on the thing for an hour or 2, then I'd just toss together an 800+ah LiFePO4 bank. Else, LTO go brrrr



Some edits as I'm still waking up:

But this assumes equal opportunity to both product varieties.  It sounds like OP has good access to LiFePO4 cells which presents a pretty compelling cost argument. 128ah lithium iron phosphate battery for 700 bucks? Dude, you'd have to be insane to stick your nose up at that. Do it. DO IT.

Also, that key word... Build... Please, PLEASE get familiar with lithium chemistry and pitfalls. Use an externally regulated alt. Do NOT EVER over charge them. Use a BMS - make sure cells are balanced. You'll get good lifetime out of the things if you go easy on charging and stop short of full charge voltage - 80-90% SOC, as opposed to 100. If you're in a cold climate, insulate the things. Maybe install a heater in the pack so they don't freeze. Don't forget ventilation for the hot months as heat realllllly reduces lifetime of these things.

Feel free to post back here or DM me if you have questions on this stuff. I have a fair bit of experience tinkering with the stuff. I was dicking around with lithium before it was cool lmao

Lots of good info there! I didn't make the post, but thank you for that! 

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2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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1 hour ago, Dafaseles said:

Lots of good info there! I didn't make the post, but thank you for that! 

Definitely 

06 Charger

Pioneer double din

Pioneer 6.5 and 6×9's

Knukoncept Krystal kable rca's

0 ga knukoncept kolossus wire 

Big 3 same wire ^ 1 run 

8g karma ss speaker wire

Sundown sia 3500d at 1ohm

2 Sundown U series 12's

Duralast platinum agm H7 (Main)

Xs power d3400

Trying to find a ho alt

 

 

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