greg4510 Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 Hi guys I have a 2007 Cadillac Escalade. Doing 4 deaf dance 305 15s on 2 orion hcca 5000.1d at half ohm. I have an apex 320 alternator and 3 runs of 2/0 welding cable. One taramps 3k on mids another 1200 and 400.4 on other mids. My question is which is my best option for holding great voltage using lithium batteries or cells? Been looking at lifepo4 100ah batteries or xs lithium cells 45ah banks. I would love some input on which is my best choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDrifter Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 IMO.... LiFePO4 is more suited for bulk storage. Such as parking your car at a show and playing it with the engine off for extended periods. These batteries (like all batteries) have a cycle count before they degrade and become inappropriate for use. With good care, you should be in the 1200-2000 cycle count range. XS power uses LTO (Lithium Titanate) in their titan8 products (yinglong IIRC) - this has a lower energy density than lithium iron phosphate, but can tolerate a much higher current load. This chemistry, while expensive and bulky for the storage you get, tolerates a far, FAR higher cycle count than other lithium chemistries - nearly on par with capacitors. LTO cells should be somewhere around the 20k cycle count range. They're also a bit more temperature tolerant than LiFePO4 / NMC / NCA chemistries. With that background, if you're looking for a daily groundpounder, I'd submit that LTO is the most suited for this task. Bit pricier and bulkier for a given capacity, but lower resistance, high cycle count, and temperature tolerance allows for a more straightforward install. Independent of which choice you get: You'll want to use an externally regulated alternator, and remove any lead/acid batteries you have. Current automotive alternators are intended to operate around a lead/acid chemistry (charge at higher voltage when cold for bulk charge, then taper off to lower voltage) that are NOT suited for lithium cells (constant current / constant voltage). And be mindful not to overcharge the things. You can get away with pushing voltages on lead / acid batteries. If you do the same with lithium: Best case, you chop your product lifetime to a fraction of what it would otherwise be. Worst case: you ever seen a lithium fire? They're nasty. If you want to DIY, read heavily into balancers, BMS systems, lithium charge profiles, and charge/discharge ratings. If you buy off-the-shelf from XS power or something - read the spec sheet and adhere to it. ~~~~~~~~SAY NO TO PHOTOBUCKET~~~~~~~~ Snow's DD-1 tracks here: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/167433-snows-dd-1-tracks/ My take on OFC vs CCA: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/110381-things-that-piss-you-off-in-the-car-audio-world/?do=findComment&comment=2461444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg4510 Posted November 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 With the amount of power I'm running especially at half ohm how many banks would you recommend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDrifter Posted November 29, 2021 Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 8 hours ago, greg4510 said: With the amount of power I'm running especially at half ohm how many banks would you recommend Might try shooting them an email for that one I can speak to chemistry and usability. But I don't have any hands on experience with the things and am hesitant to make any recommendations given the financial cost of these units ~~~~~~~~SAY NO TO PHOTOBUCKET~~~~~~~~ Snow's DD-1 tracks here: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/167433-snows-dd-1-tracks/ My take on OFC vs CCA: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/110381-things-that-piss-you-off-in-the-car-audio-world/?do=findComment&comment=2461444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalilac619 Posted November 29, 2021 Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 You be good with 160ah-200ah or 4-5 banks of LTO…. I have 260ah on 32k with dual 370 amp alts dropping to 14.7 at the amp terminal demoing and my team mate has 200ah with a single 270amp Alt on 14k dropping to 14.3 2000 Suburban 6 runs of 2/0 12 timpano audio mids,6 timpana audio tweets and 1 timpano compression horn per door 8 banks of blue Maxwells + 260ah of Yin Long LTOs 2 370 Amp Autotech Alts mids amps 2 Crescendo Skyway 3ks Tweet amp Crossfire 2000.4 sub amp: 4 Crossfire XT 8ks Subs: 8 18 in Crossfires in a 4th order Best Scores at events… 161.6@38hz DBdrag sealed on the dash… 162.54 outlaw…161.14 Meca headrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg4510 Posted November 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 OK like I say I have an apex 320 but the Escalade drops voltage on its own through the computer. Is there a bypass for this or would the lto batteries keep the voltage up on their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafaseles Posted November 29, 2021 Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 3 hours ago, greg4510 said: OK like I say I have an apex 320 but the Escalade drops voltage on its own through the computer. Is there a bypass for this or would the lto batteries keep the voltage up on their own? I have that voltage regulator in my truck. The voltage will fluctuate on its own because the RVC is telling the alternator it doesn't need it right now basically. What I had to do, because I went with a LifePo4 battery (they don't like being charged above 14.8v, and that RVC can tell the alternator to charge above 15.3v at times) is buy an older alternator with a 4 pin mount. GM hasn't changed their alternator mounting since 1986 I believe. But changed to a 2 pin plug setup and added the RVC in 2006. So I bought a Mechman alternator for a 2005. Mechman also makes a stand alone 4 pin plug that you plug into your alternator, and just hook it up to a switched 12v source for the exciter wire. Now, it'll stay at 14.7 no matter what. Mechman also sells a plug you plug into the stock 2 pin plug that tricks the computer into thinking nothing has changed with the RVC, so you don't have to share at a battery light on the dash. That, or I would think you'd have to go externally regulated on your alternator so the voltage will stay constant. LTO's can change a lot higher than LifePo4 cells, so I don't think you'd end up damaging LTO cells charging upwards of 15v. But I don't know half as much as @SnowDriftereither lol. 2011 Chevy Silverado under construction My build log here. Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg4510 Posted November 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 Thanks for the info I know Richard from mechman pretty well. I originally wanted to do lifepo4 batteries but so many have told me to run lto so I'm so confused but I just want steady voltage without feeling like I'm wasting money on the wrong technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafaseles Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 hour ago, greg4510 said: Thanks for the info I know Richard from mechman pretty well. I originally wanted to do lifepo4 batteries but so many have told me to run lto so I'm so confused but I just want steady voltage without feeling like I'm wasting money on the wrong technology I think if I didn't already spend a G on a battery, I'd go LTO. I bought it on a knee jerk reaction to a sale lol. 2011 Chevy Silverado under construction My build log here. Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDrifter Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 On 11/29/2021 at 1:23 AM, greg4510 said: OK like I say I have an apex 320 but the Escalade drops voltage on its own through the computer. Is there a bypass for this or would the lto batteries keep the voltage up on their own? External regulator. Turn a dial to set the voltage and you're done. Alternator is PCM controlled and adjusted from measurements taken from a ground clamp IIRC. ~~~~~~~~SAY NO TO PHOTOBUCKET~~~~~~~~ Snow's DD-1 tracks here: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/167433-snows-dd-1-tracks/ My take on OFC vs CCA: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/110381-things-that-piss-you-off-in-the-car-audio-world/?do=findComment&comment=2461444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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