Tradeoffs With Enclosures ?

[Fish Chris]

I'm wondering which aspects (between, super-low, super-loud, and super-tight) don't (easily) go together ???

I mean, I've heard that a bigger box can get down deeper, and get louder, but that this won't produce the tightest sound either. Do you agree with this ?

Now, personally speaking, I'm thinking that I have enough wattage, and enough speakers, that I'm going to be able to finish destroying my hearing soon enough, as it is (plenty loud enough)...... But even with the two aspects that matter the most to me > super-deep, and super-tight, are these two things tough to get out of the same box ?

Please, no over-simplified answers like, "It's all about how you build the box"..... Duh. At the very least, I'm looking for a generalization like, "A bigger box, tuned like XXXX will give you really deep + tight bass, etc, etc.....

Thanks,

Fish

> The future slammin' Fish wagon ;-)

[emperorjj1]

sealed: smaller tends to have higher power handling and is unoffically tuned higher Bigger is unofficially tuned lower

ported: bigger normally gets louder

If your really looking for super deep and super tight you need a sealed box with some badass 12s or 15s. sorta like mine. Or possibly a transmission line if you can pull it off. Ported box isnt going to pull it off. On the flip side you dont get the extra spl out of the ported box and if your speakers wont play low naturally it wont be as deep

[ptcary]

You have to decide which will work best for the music YOU listen too. If you gotta live with it everyday, you want it to be good for you. 90% of the people here don't care anything about general sound quality, so you will get lots of advice about how to make it loud. If you gotta listen to real music on it everyday, a nice tuned ported enclosure is still the best, but you don't have to tune it way low.

Edited October 27, 2008 by ptcary

[Fish Chris]

Hey Emporor

If your really looking for super deep and super tight you need a sealed box

Really ? I knew that sealed enclosures make 'tight' bass..... but I had also heard that they didn't get down as low., as a large ported box, with low tuning......

Also (and I'm not doubting what your saying.... but rather, I just don't know what to believe) I recently read this little thing, where these audio pros "are even saying" that ported and tuned boxes can be as tight as sealed ??? Doesn't sound logical to me, but.....

Myth # 4 Ported boxes don’t sound as good as sealed

In most cases this is strictly a result of linear response vs non-linear response and it could go both ways. 4th order systems or “vented” boxes tend to be far more particular to volume, port size and length and the driver TPS’s rather than sealed systems. Misalignments are therefore amplified and greatly affect the frequency response. Often times in car audio, ported boxes are not tuned low enough, or the volume is too large and there is a large peak in the frequency response from literately too much sensitivity or SPL at a very narrow frequency band. The other issue is if the driver does not have enough BL or has too high of a Qts and becomes under damped at resonance. This again leads to drastic peaks at the resonating frequency; however in this case, the driver will be peaky there regardless of content and it will sound ultimately less dynamic and very bottom heavy. However, a well designed vented box may have considerably lower distortion and higher dynamics than a sealed box because of the added SPL gained from the port without increasing the active driver displacement requirements. Sealed systems evoke the most non-linear driver behavior to reach any given SPL, so in fact, they could be the worst sounding system if your SPL demands are considerable. It is important to model a ported design or ask the manufacture for a recommendation. It is also critical to include a high pass filter on the active driver in a ported box for protection.

Do you agree with any of this stuff Emporor ?

Hmmmm,

Fish

Edited October 27, 2008 by Fish Chris

[amazinblazin10]

yeah i was say go for a t-line if you could pull it off but that requires a lot of time and space, but it's all cool, or i've never built one before, but have you thought about maybe building a bandpass it probably will too be big but it's always a possibility, i've only been building for a couple of months now so im not all that for sure but im learning, i would have to agree with some of the people on here and build your box by the kind of music you listen to and decide if your going for more SQ or SPL.

[Fish Chris]

Thank you Ptcary. One things for sure, I definately lean towards SQ, although I like some SPL too :-)

My problem is, one day I might be listening to hard rock, or oldschool stuff with no more than mid-bass..... the next day, reggae.... and the next, straight up bass music..... sometimes all in the same day !

One thing in my favor, is that I will be running a pair of 8" mid-bass drivers..... so even if my 12"s don't want to "reach up that high" hopefully, I'll still have that 80hz to 200 hz range covered.

Still, I want my subs to play deep / tight, and 'then' loud........

Hmmmm,

Fish

[Fish Chris]

Hey Amazing, well space is not an issue. If my two 12"s needed 8 cubes, I could give it to them.

I'm totally not opposed to a t-line setup..... I just know that they are "really tricky".... and unless I could have an experienced pro, first design, then build it for me, I just wouldn't want to do that myself.

And the other problem, as I said in my other post, is that I listen to absolutely "every" different type of music you could possibly imagine.... From jungle music, to country, reggae, hard-rock, techno bass music, alternative, etc, etc.....

Peace,

Fish

[ptcary]

Thank you Ptcary. One things for sure, I definately lean towards SQ, although I like some SPL too :-)

My problem is, one day I might be listening to hard rock, or oldschool stuff with no more than mid-bass..... the next day, reggae.... and the next, straight up bass music..... sometimes all in the same day !

One thing in my favor, is that I will be running a pair of 8" mid-bass drivers..... so even if my 12"s don't want to "reach up that high" hopefully, I'll still have that 80hz to 200 hz range covered.

Still, I want my subs to play deep / tight, and 'then' loud........

Hmmmm,

Fish

If you are running 12"s...even ported, you will have tight bass. I noticed a difference in dropping from 15"s sealed to 12"s ported, and the 8" midbasses will help you even more.

If you go ported, try a compromise of ~35hz tune, that will give you decent depth and will still work with rock music too. I wanted a 35 hz tune, but 'settled' for 38 hz due to airspace limitations. Mine really shines on '80s and rock music, and lacks the ultra lows, seems to be loudest right at 40hz.

[Boon]

Here's a quote I quite like, it's from a friend of mine's sig, don't know where he got it from:

"You can have low end extension, high efficiency, or small enclosure size. Pick two."

That's it in a nutshell. You can have a small, highly efficient box (enormous port) but it won't play low.

A low end monster, that's highly efficient, will have an enormous box.

And finally, a low end beast that still has a small box will imply a very small port, thus efficiency will suck.

You can always compensate for efficiency with power, and vice versa. But keep in mind that a smaller box is required for good power handling, especially beyond the power rating of the sub

[Fish Chris]

Hey Boon, if this is true, I'd be fine with this, as like I have said, I really don't have any space limits, for the size of my enclosure. I could give my two 12"s ten cubes if they needed it. I just don't think they do....

Now of course, low end extension = deep bass. However, does efficiency = tight, clean bass ? {because that's one of the things I'm looking for} but I thought efficiency was a measure of loudness per watt......

Fish

Here's a quote I quite like, it's from a friend of mine's sig, don't know where he got it from:

"You can have low end extension, high efficiency, or small enclosure size. Pick two."

That's it in a nutshell. You can have a small, highly efficient box (enormous port) but it won't play low.

A low end monster, that's highly efficient, will have an enormous box.

And finally, a low end beast that still has a small box will imply a very small port, thus efficiency will suck.

You can always compensate for efficiency with power, and vice versa. But keep in mind that a smaller box is required for good power handling, especially beyond the power rating of the sub