D1200's

[loopkiller]

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm far from knowledgeable, but here's my understanding:

The battery is supposed to supplement the alt. It isn't meant to completely power your car and audio system. That's why when people plan out systems with battery banks, the factor in the batt's draw. Batteries can only store power from the alt to use at a "better" time. They don't make power. So if the batteries are low, and can't get a charge...bad stuff happens.

That is how I understand it as well. Scottie said that he should not have returned 2 good batteries, which would imply that the batteries were not at fault and were providing proper power to the amps. The OP said they were maintaining a full charge, so unless that is wrong, I stand behind my statements.

If he had 2 D1200 that were maintaining a charge as he said, and XS says they are rated to supplement 3000W RMS each battery (6000W RMS total), and Scottie insists that they were good batteries, he was only running around 3000W RMS total, how else could this have happened? Twice?

[soundzright]

That is how I understand it as well. Scottie said that he should not have returned 2 good batteries, which would imply that the batteries were not at fault and were providing proper power to the amps. The OP said they were maintaining a full charge, so unless that is wrong, I stand behind my statements.

If he had 2 D1200 that were maintaining a charge as he said, and XS says they are rated to supplement 3000W RMS each battery (6000W RMS total), and Scottie insists that they were good batteries, he was only running around 3000W RMS total, how else could this have happened? Twice?

I agree with you.

[scottiej]

That is how I understand it as well. Scottie said that he should not have returned 2 good batteries, which would imply that the batteries were not at fault and were providing proper power to the amps. The OP said they were maintaining a full charge, so unless that is wrong, I stand behind my statements.

If he had 2 D1200 that were maintaining a charge as he said, and XS says they are rated to supplement 3000W RMS each battery (6000W RMS total), and Scottie insists that they were good batteries, he was only running around 3000W RMS total, how else could this have happened? Twice?

This is not a hard concept to understand loop... Your alternator provides current to the electrical loads present in the car. If you add additional capacity to your system (ie two extra batteries) and your alternator can not provide enough current to supply the components of the electrical system plus the two batteries, then you are not helping your charging system out at all. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. For example, if you have a massive system, and you add massive amounts of batteries to the system to supply power to the amps, but only play the amps for short periods of time, then the alt will have time to re-coup what was drawn from the bank. In this scenario, if the system is played coninuously, then the alt will never catch up, and eventually the system will shut down, amps could blow from low voltage, or the alt could burn up from overheating. If this is how the system is going to be used, it is important to re-charge with a battery charger after long periods of play.

In the case above, there coud have been multiple reasons for failure including improper installation, improper charge on the batteries, faulty alternator and yes, even a bad battery in the group (Optima or XS Power). I would think that after making the purchase, and going through the trouble of installing them, he would have charged and checked them before returning them... or atleast talked to someone in tech support. I am still waiting to hear the verdict from the amp repair company... and would love to get my hands on these two batteries for personal testing...

[loopkiller]

This is not a hard concept to understand loop... Your alternator provides current to the electrical loads present in the car. If you add additional capacity to your system (ie two extra batteries) and your alternator can not provide enough current to supply the components of the electrical system plus the two batteries, then you are not helping your charging system out at all. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. For example, if you have a massive system, and you add massive amounts of batteries to the system to supply power to the amps, but only play the amps for short periods of time, then the alt will have time to re-coup what was drawn from the bank. In this scenario, if the system is played coninuously, then the alt will never catch up, and eventually the system will shut down, amps could blow from low voltage, or the alt could burn up from overheating. If this is how the system is going to be used, it is important to re-charge with a battery charger after long periods of play.

In the case above, there coud have been multiple reasons for failure including improper installation, improper charge on the batteries, faulty alternator and yes, even a bad battery in the group (Optima or XS Power). I would think that after making the purchase, and going through the trouble of installing them, he would have charged and checked them before returning them... or atleast talked to someone in tech support. I am still waiting to hear the verdict from the amp repair company... and would love to get my hands on these two batteries for personal testing...

Maybe you missed the part where he said that the batteries were charged. That changes this whole issue. And I will give you the fact that we cannot know for sure that the install was good, or that he for sure had a good charge on the batteries. But, we have to take some of what he says on face value in order to help him. I am just a little bit worried that two of those small batteries could possibly handle 3000W together, let alone just one pushing that same 3000W load. I have seen 3000W systems that run short on power with a group 31 sized battery. They usually have some voltage drops under heavy notes, even with good charging systems and all. It is just hard to believe that XS really thinks that a small battery like that will power 3000W. That is my main gripe here. Not that the quality is good or bad, just that the marketing seems a little inflated.

[BASS14]

Maybe you missed the part where he said that the batteries were charged. That changes this whole issue. And I will give you the fact that we cannot know for sure that the install was good, or that he for sure had a good charge on the batteries. But, we have to take some of what he says on face value in order to help him. I am just a little bit worried that two of those small batteries could possibly handle 3000W together, let alone just one pushing that same 3000W load. I have seen 3000W systems that run short on power with a group 31 sized battery. They usually have some voltage drops under heavy notes, even with good charging systems and all. It is just hard to believe that XS really thinks that a small battery like that will power 3000W. That is my main gripe here. Not that the quality is good or bad, just that the marketing seems a little inflated.

with that said...i was running 1 powermaster D925 (which is smaller then the 1200) on a 3800rms system and had NO issues little to no voltage drop...so yes i do see the D1200 handling a 3000w system bein the that D925 is said to handle a 2500w i believe and i threw it in a 3800w system and it took it like a champ! yes i have a 200A alt MLA etc so i have a stout electrical.but still i see this being a user error..adding batts w a stock alt! first mistake, bumpin long periods of time! second mistake, and not letting alt and batts catch up after bumping! 3rd mistake, and the fourth mistake getting rid of powermaster batts....cuz of his mess up imo

[loopkiller]

with that said...i was running 1 powermaster D925 (which is smaller then the 1200) on a 3800rms system and had NO issues little to no voltage drop...so yes i do see the D1200 handling a 3000w system bein the that D925 is said to handle a 2500w i believe and i threw it in a 3800w system and it took it like a champ! yes i have a 200A alt MLA etc so i have a stout electrical.but still i see this being a user error..adding batts w a stock alt! first mistake, bumpin long periods of time! second mistake, and not letting alt and batts catch up after bumping! 3rd mistake, and the fourth mistake getting rid of powermaster batts....cuz of his mess up imo

Then why does your sig show that you have three D925s if one of them was enough?

[soundzright]

It must have worked so good that 2 more were needed for cosmetic reasons?

[AI James]

were the battieries parelleled or seriesed, because 24+ volts could blow some amps

[soundzright]

were the battieries parelleled or seriesed, because 24+ volts could blow some amps

that is true too LOL

[scottiej]

Maybe you missed the part where he said that the batteries were charged. That changes this whole issue.

Not from a technical standpoint it doesn't. Just because he said it was charged, does not give me any indication that it really was. There were no details or voltages provided in his post that would allow me to assume that, yes, the battery really was fully and properly charged.

And I will give you the fact that we cannot know for sure that the install was good, or that he for sure had a good charge on the batteries. But, we have to take some of what he says on face value in order to help him.

In my many years of help and support to spl competitors and customers, if you assume that who you are talking to knows what they are talking about you can waste a lot of valuable time troubleshooting the wrong thing if you dont have all the correct info from the beginning. This guy didn't even send an email or call in to the tech dept to try and figure out what was wrong with his charging system... he just convinced himself that it was the batteries and sent them back before even asking. Makes me wonder why he would even bother posting here after the fact???

I am just a little bit worried that two of those small batteries could possibly handle 3000W together, let alone just one pushing that same 3000W load.

Take a look at our wattage chart and explain why you think the D1200 could not provide supplementary power to a 3,000W amp when installed along with a primary battery?

It takes about 180A of current to supply a 3,000W amplifier to full output. Is it not possible that a stock battery paralleled with a D1200 in the back (right next to the amp) could provide 180A of current to the amplifier even taking the alternator out of the equation? Of course it can... and sure the state of the stock battery plays a big role, as does the alternator, and the installation, but I can tell you that the D1200 can provide the bulk of the 180A with no problem. Plus, he was using two D1200's... plus the stock location battery (from what I can tell a Redtop)... if he didnt have enough power with this, then there were definately problems somewhere! Maybe there was a bad battery in the mix... who knows??? Unless we hear back from him, or the batteries show up, we may never know.

I have seen 3000W systems that run short on power with a group 31 sized battery.

Unless you are talking about extended play with the engine off, then either the battery was of poor quality, old, or installed/charged improperly. There should be no issues with a 3,000W daily system using a 70+ pound battery.

They usually have some voltage drops under heavy notes, even with good charging systems and all.

Maybe your point of view is that you shouldnt have any voltage drop when the system is under load? If the system is expected to be stable at all times, then the alternator will have to provide 100% of the current needed for the amplifier and the vehicle. For many, this is not possible. Even the most powerful alternators available can only produce around 160A at idle at best. This is not enough current to supply the amplifier at full load without a voltage drop, so it is impractical to expect zero voltage drop from a 3,000W system with an OEM alternator. You are very likely going to exceed the alternator's capabilities, and we have taken this into consideration with our battery recommendations. As you can imagine, there is no way a single recommendation can work for every system. There are always going to be variables in every installation. It is our job to try to educate the end user to choose the most efficient products to meet his or her needs. Maybe this isnt the same way that you and I would build our systems, but we have to start somewhere.

It is just hard to believe that XS really thinks that a small battery like that will power 3000W. That is my main gripe here. Not that the quality is good or bad, just that the marketing seems a little inflated.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion... I am sure it is valuable to many of the forum readers. If they choose to follow your recommendation of more than 1 D1200, that is fine with me...

Edited March 31, 2009 by scottiej