Sub "tapping"?

[kirill007]

Cough cough, when you crank the gain it will output more power, but it will be clipped.

The power will increase and distortion too.

Quoted directly from the link to wiki that jacob gave : "Driving an amplifier into clipping may cause it to output power in excess of its published ratings."

So Superjay, you're wrong

[OldsBoomer]

Cough cough, when you crank the gain it will output more power, but it will be clipped.

The power will increase and distortion too.

Quoted directly from the link to wiki that jacob gave : "Driving an amplifier into clipping may cause it to output power in excess of its published ratings."

So Superjay, you're wrong

who would of thunk...

[Superjay]

Understanding the basics of a concept is different than understanding all aspects of something. You guys know the basics. You don't fully understand the concepts here that you are discussing.

Crank the gain on an amp and all you are doing is driving the signal to square waves without increasing output. An amplifier is only capable of a finite output...the gain is not a volume control.

I'm not here to battle wits with the unarmed

[kirill007]

I do know that a gain knob is not a volume knob, and that a amp is capable of a finite output.

But when you set the gain with a o-scope and you measure how much watts it's putting out.(let us say that it's at around 1/4 gain)

And then you would turn the gain to maximum, and if you measure again with the clipped signal you won't see a increase in power?

I have to disagree.

I do know a amp can only handle a certain amount of power and then fails because the power supply or the fet's will burn or other components.

But if u set the gain to a perfect sine wave and then turn up the gain it doesn't gain in power? i disagree.

[Superjay]

and amp is NOT capable of infinite power...FINITE power...an amp can only put out a certain amount of power. after that...it's just distorted output.

again...you youngsters have a lot of information, but there are holes in that information. i have been doing this a long time. post count notwithstanding, I have many many years of experience doing this correctly. Theory is not up for debate. and your understanding of that theory is lacking.

let's use your example. an amplifier that is capable of handling 8 volts of input is connected to a HU that is capable of 6 volts of output. Using pure theory here, mind you. to match the 6 volt HU to the 8 volt amplifier you would turn the gain up 1/4. when the HU is making all 6 volts and the gain is properly matched turning the gain up any more is only going to clip the output, not increase power. at 6 volts of output and the gain properly matched the amplifier is making maximum power and is incapable of making any more...do you see now where you were mistaken?

[OldsBoomer]

what are the other aspects? and it can't make anymore clean power but as for dirty power it will increase i'd bet if you clamp tested an amp with it make perfectly first then clipped it you'd see a power increase.

And i do know the difference between AC and DC current just because the wave becomes flat doesn't make it a DC current

[Sanitarium]

Look at it this way.

3 lines on a piece of paper, they represent 0, 100%+ and 100%-

now in these lines, centering over the 0 line, draw a wave.

turn the gain up, the amp gets more sensitive to input, the wave grows approching the 100% lines.

keep turning the knob and the wave grows past those 100% lines.

the part of the wave that goes past those lines gets cut off (as the amp has hit it's limit here)

this is what we call clipping.

your speakers are stupid, they do exactly what your amp tells them to do.

you give them this wave that now has cut off tops, effectively stopping in it's motion for a brief period of time, so do the subs.

Subs need to move to cool. the higher end subs have a ton of engineering in them to make the cooling from airmovement past the coils more efficient.

the air movement wicks away heat buildup.

If the sub gets a clipped signal, it does exactly what it's told and moves till it can't move anymore and stops right there for a brief period of time. The closer the sub is to working at it's x-max, the more the sub stops in it's track, the less heat gets wicked away, the closer you come to total failure.

now more about the signal itself.

The signal is an alternating one, meaning the positive and negative poles swap back and forth.

The signal is effectively a dc current that swaps back and forth.

Yes a clipped signal may appear as a dc current within an ac current.

But all an ac current is is DC that SWAPS.

So a clipped signal is just an AC current that's slowed down. That's it, SLOWS, NOT STOPS, IT DOESN"T BECOME DC CURRENT. It stands as an ALTERNATING POLARITY DIRECT CURRENT. It will always be considered AC as long as there's a back slope to the wave, no matter how much you clip it.

[kirill007]

and amp is NOT capable of infinite power...FINITE power...an amp can only put out a certain amount of power. after that...it's just distorted output.

again...you youngsters have a lot of information, but there are holes in that information. i have been doing this a long time. post count notwithstanding, I have many many years of experience doing this correctly. Theory is not up for debate. and your understanding of that theory is lacking.

let's use your example. an amplifier that is capable of handling 8 volts of input is connected to a HU that is capable of 6 volts of output. Using pure theory here, mind you. to match the 6 volt HU to the 8 volt amplifier you would turn the gain up 1/4. when the HU is making all 6 volts and the gain is properly matched turning the gain up any more is only going to clip the output, not increase power. at 6 volts of output and the gain properly matched the amplifier is making maximum power and is incapable of making any more...do you see now where you were mistaken?

I'm sorry, that was a type error i meant finite (that's what i said in the second part..)

I know that postcount don't mind, i've seen that you are the T3 audio sales manager.

Wait, i have a question how much procent of distortion are we talking about when the Hu output matches amp imput? (do we talk about 1%THD, 5,10,20, 50% of THD?)

Because that really mathers, that's what you aren't thinking about.

I personally just make sure the wave is a perfect sine so that should be close to the 1% thd.

And do you think THD doesn't has something to do with the amount of power a amp makes? (maybe we could continue this conversation in chat?)

EDIT:sanitarium i have just read you're post, but read mine, because thd is where that theory fails,how much amount of distortion do you have when you have "perfectly" set the gain on the amp?

[OldsBoomer]

now more about the signal itself.

The signal is an alternating one, meaning the positive and negative poles swap back and forth.

The signal is effectively a dc current that swaps back and forth.

Yes a clipped signal may appear as a dc current within an ac current.

But all an ac current is is DC that SWAPS.

So a clipped signal is just an AC current that's slowed down. That's it, SLOWS, NOT STOPS, IT DOESN"T BECOME DC CURRENT. It stands as an ALTERNATING POLARITY DIRECT CURRENT. It will always be considered AC as long as there's a back slope to the wave, no matter how much you clip it.

Yea i know what the sub does with a clipped signal thanks and this is exactly what i've said but apparently im wrong... hmmm

[Superjay]

what are the other aspects? and it can't make anymore clean power but as for dirty power it will increase i'd bet if you clamp tested an amp with it make perfectly first then clipped it you'd see a power increase.

And i do know the difference between AC and DC current just because the wave becomes flat doesn't make it a DC current

yes, when the wave becomes flat that makes it DC..it is no longer alternating. if you measure a DC signal on the scope it will show as a flat ling above or below the x-axis.

we're talking years of actual hands on experience to learn the little nuances beyond theory. When someone with real world professional experience comes in and shares that experience with you, instead of telling him he's wrong because you disagree, ask why. learn something.