Decaf Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Phase change has a direct ms delay... and guess what can change that... T/AThings are interrelated, play around using the same lpf and hpf crossover point, and change the dB slope and pay attention to what is lost and what is gained... you should notice some notes will "disappear"... this is the out of phase response coming into play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 -6=90degree electrical phase change -12=180degree " " -18=270degree " " -24=360degree " " and repeat a typical buttersworth (-12) will be 90degree off phase at -3dB and 180degree with more attenuation, hence why opposite tweeter gets polarity switched I'm sure some of you have heard that. I'm leaving a lot out because I don't have time atm to expand, but the general idea is explained I got that from what i have read so far. But there are some other things i read that bother me but may be of no consequence. Just some issues with phase shifting as you get further away from xover points and things like time alignment issues. Of course real world results may vary i guess Rest in peace, walled 87 accord build log 03' Corolla build with AA Mayhem inside. My super random youtube channel and terrible camera work. Wiring comparison by CaptainzPlanetz Wire and fuse guide by Guest SyKo13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskanzx5 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 link to info about phase would be great. I just adjust the slope to what I think sounds best and gives me a good freq range and response. more info would help on this. t1500bdcp 2 t2d4 15" 1 t600.4 1 t400.2 1 set p1 tweets singer alt, tons of wiring, smd vm-1, 80prs, back seat delete, still in the works, aiming for a 145-147 with the ability to play 25hz up to 50hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Before I Start with this post, I am letting you know that I do not think you are wrong in any way ... but the fact is that THIS is the subject that I wanted to touch on ... For instance stage height is going to be different for me (5' 4") vs another (6') in the same car and we will not have the same audio experience.This is one of the primary goals that the SQ competitor wants to work towards ... MECA has 3 judges during comps. Once the first judge gets in, you can not retune until AFTER ALL judges went through your vehicle ... None that I have ever seen has been the EXACT height ... So you have to find a happy medium to please all judges. This is not easy. Now with that being said ... We quit tuning that night before SBN ... All judges went through, then gave demo after demo after demo ... I never moved the time alignment for anybody in particular. in Fact, it is still set to that tune. and everybody that I asked about the entire stage and image. I was never told that the center was off (including the judges) ... Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 link to info about phase would be great. I just adjust the slope to what I think sounds best and gives me a good freq range and response. more info would help on this. I'm not sure if this is the best info, but it will take you a while to read it. What do you think decaf? http://www.rane.com/note160.html Rest in peace, walled 87 accord build log 03' Corolla build with AA Mayhem inside. My super random youtube channel and terrible camera work. Wiring comparison by CaptainzPlanetz Wire and fuse guide by Guest SyKo13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Before I Start with this post, I am letting you know that I do not think you are wrong in any way ... but the fact is that THIS is the subject that I wanted to touch on ... For instance stage height is going to be different for me (5' 4") vs another (6') in the same car and we will not have the same audio experience.This is one of the primary goals that the SQ competitor wants to work towards ... MECA has 3 judges during comps. Once the first judge gets in, you can not retune until AFTER ALL judges went through your vehicle ... None that I have ever seen has been the EXACT height ... So you have to find a happy medium to please all judges. This is not easy. Now with that being said ... We quit tuning that night before SBN ... All judges went through, then gave demo after demo after demo ... I never moved the time alignment for anybody in particular. in Fact, it is still set to that tune. and everybody that I asked about the entire stage and image. I was never told that the center was off (including the judges) ... I was running 2 way passive at that time too ... Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyblack76 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 eyes are starting to hurt... SMD SUPER SELLER The Burban Build Blazer Build sold Acura trunk build sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskanzx5 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 link to info about phase would be great. I just adjust the slope to what I think sounds best and gives me a good freq range and response. more info would help on this. I'm not sure if this is the best info, but it will take you a while to read it. What do you think decaf? http://www.rane.com/note160.html oh yeah, that will be a longer read then I can do right now but with the skimming I did I think it will help me out a lot. t1500bdcp 2 t2d4 15" 1 t600.4 1 t400.2 1 set p1 tweets singer alt, tons of wiring, smd vm-1, 80prs, back seat delete, still in the works, aiming for a 145-147 with the ability to play 25hz up to 50hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 From what i have read, It seems that for instance: Lets say you are using a 6db slope you have a 90° phase change, but with that slope, at one octave away you will essentially have a 12db difference and then be 180° out, then one octave away gain you will be 18db and 270° out and so on. I could see this being a problem with a gentle 6db or maybe even a 12db slope. With 12db you would start at 180° then be back in phase again in the next octave since it would be 24db. Of course this could be used to your advantage i suppose under certain circumstances. Is this correct?. Edit: If that is true, then i could see how having different slopes on subs/mids/high could cause issues with frequencies as you move further away from the crossover point. i could see how you may end up in phase at your crossover point (whatever it may be) and end up cancelling out lets say around 120 or 200 hz or something and getting some weird issues. I mean, with a steep crossover like 24db it probably wont be an issue, but for some reason if you used 12db and 6d together, or maybe 12db and 18db. next to each other with the wrong frequencies it could get ugly Rest in peace, walled 87 accord build log 03' Corolla build with AA Mayhem inside. My super random youtube channel and terrible camera work. Wiring comparison by CaptainzPlanetz Wire and fuse guide by Guest SyKo13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Of course this could be used to your advantage i suppose under certain circumstances.you are practically using the vehicle's resonance to your advantage. Thats how my 5.25s sounded so strongly when I had them in perfect alignment and phase with the sub woofers running a a 12 db slope ... Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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