zayres29 Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Posted January 28, 2014 that is a really good write up but now im really confused as to how you went from dropping to the mid 14s on one battery and added the caps and only dropped .2 playing basically the same amount Btw that was the first person. Ever banned by me while dropping a deuce. Feel privileged
HHR Ed Posted January 28, 2014 Report Posted January 28, 2014 Because it's not like just throwing in a battery. There's more to understand. Even I don't fully understand them im not trying to insult anyones intelligence but its just electricity unless there is some mythical creature that you have to slay before you hook everything up and save the princess series = multiply voltage by 2 and parallel = multiply your reserve by 2 maybe im missing something and im the idiot im just going by what ive observed it seems like a small (2-3) battery bank coupled with a sizable cap bank would be the end all be all to electrical systems Individual cells are too complicated for the average consumer. Even your brief explanation barely touches anything useful on the technical nature of caps. Average consumers do not know series vs parallel. Above avg. consumers may know it but do not know the principles of CAPS and how they do not behave like batteries. They will not know that CAPS are not to be used as replacements for Batts. And they may not know how to make buss bars, cell balancing circuitry etc.... I have done a lot of comprehensive testing on Super Caps over the last year. I have given some technical details on here and other forums. My research is being used by some power companies that are developing a few products that will be more "Plug and Play" And not the custom garage builds most are doing now. More info will be available when these are available and NDSAs are so restrictive. Until then, cost analysis does show that price is a limiting factor. Batteries have a ton more Power Density over SuperCaps and are much less expensive to produce. Once the technology is more readily available, price will come down. Ed Lester ShowtimeSPL Host Showtime Electronics Video MarketingMy old Build Loghttp://www.stevemead...08/#entry511451http://www.youtube.com/showtimespl 5 time dB Drag Finalist Last ride 2007 HHR, current dB 153.5 and bass race 149.4 dB. 153.0 dB on music New Ride, 2008 HHR SS. Build under way. Loudest score ever = 171dB 2009 dB Drag Racing, North American Points Champion
SnowDrifter Posted January 28, 2014 Report Posted January 28, 2014 Because I wouldn't go to mid 14s and stay there. I'd drop there for a second or two, then hop back up. Short draw ~~~~~~~~SAY NO TO PHOTOBUCKET~~~~~~~~ Snow's DD-1 tracks here: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/167433-snows-dd-1-tracks/ My take on OFC vs CCA: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/110381-things-that-piss-you-off-in-the-car-audio-world/?do=findComment&comment=2461444
biscuitownz Posted January 28, 2014 Report Posted January 28, 2014 before you start flaming me im talking about the caps that snowdrifter used in his build and im pretty sure that AMI is using something similar too it seems price/performance is way better than a massive bank of batteries with snow only have one d1400 and a cap bank he only drops like .2v am i missing something He will drop more than .2v after playing a little bit longer. Caps are more of a temporary cushion, to provide power when there is a dramatically decrease in voltage. Let's say you have an alt that charges at 14v flat, once the bass hits the amps take a majority of the power and drops the charging voltage down to let's say 12.5v, the moment the voltage from the alt dropped to 12.5v you would be essentially using power from the caps (if those are your only other power reserve). At this point the caps will basically be running the whole system by itself, with minimal help from the alt. The time it takes for the caps to drop down in voltage will depend on the ratings for the cap and so on. Anyway, once the caps drop down to 12.5v in that scenario, it would be the same thing as having no caps at all unless the voltage drops even more. Caps also discharge a lot faster due to their lower internal resistance, which is why they can be charged/discharged quickly. It's also why they use caps in camera flashes, you need to be able to dump all the power into the flash in an instant. As opposed to slowly giving it power with a battery.
zayres29 Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Posted January 28, 2014 Because it's not like just throwing in a battery. There's more to understand. Even I don't fully understand them im not trying to insult anyones intelligence but its just electricity unless there is some mythical creature that you have to slay before you hook everything up and save the princess series = multiply voltage by 2 and parallel = multiply your reserve by 2 maybe im missing something and im the idiot im just going by what ive observed it seems like a small (2-3) battery bank coupled with a sizable cap bank would be the end all be all to electrical systems Individual cells are too complicated for the average consumer. Even your brief explanation barely touches anything useful on the technical nature of caps. Average consumers do not know series vs parallel. Above avg. consumers may know it but do not know the principles of CAPS and how they do not behave like batteries. They will not know that CAPS are not to be used as replacements for Batts. And they may not know how to make buss bars, cell balancing circuitry etc.... I have done a lot of comprehensive testing on Super Caps over the last year. I have given some technical details on here and other forums. My research is being used by some power companies that are developing a few products that will be more "Plug and Play" And not the custom garage builds most are doing now. More info will be available when these are available and NDSAs are so restrictive. Until then, cost analysis does show that price is a limiting factor. Batteries have a ton more Power Density over SuperCaps and are much less expensive to produce. Once the technology is more readily available, price will come down. i wasnt claiming to know everything i was just stating what i was observing but what you say makes sense i will do more research and see where i get... it looks promising... again the cost though Because I wouldn't go to mid 14s and stay there. I'd drop there for a second or two, then hop back up. Short draw that makes more sense i think im getting it now seems like caps should be added after voltage drop is observed and calculated and for how long the voltage stays lower than operating voltage Btw that was the first person. Ever banned by me while dropping a deuce. Feel privileged
SnowDrifter Posted January 28, 2014 Report Posted January 28, 2014 before you start flaming me im talking about the caps that snowdrifter used in his build and im pretty sure that AMI is using something similar too it seems price/performance is way better than a massive bank of batteries with snow only have one d1400 and a cap bank he only drops like .2v am i missing something He will drop more than .2v after playing a little bit longer. Actually I can play for 20 minutes straight. That .2v drop is more from front-back voltage drop than it is a lack of power ~~~~~~~~SAY NO TO PHOTOBUCKET~~~~~~~~ Snow's DD-1 tracks here: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/167433-snows-dd-1-tracks/ My take on OFC vs CCA: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/110381-things-that-piss-you-off-in-the-car-audio-world/?do=findComment&comment=2461444
alaskanzx5 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Posted January 28, 2014 i talked with snowdrifter some on caps and after looking at price/performance difference as he already said the current price isn't very cheap. I think I came up with needing 350-450 for a 1k bank of caps. now that could work for my application fairly well but considering the cost difference vs performance and the amount of work that would have to go into it I figure unless the price drops on the caps it just isn't worth the work/slightly added cost over a battery bank. t1500bdcp 2 t2d4 15" 1 t600.4 1 t400.2 1 set p1 tweets singer alt, tons of wiring, smd vm-1, 80prs, back seat delete, still in the works, aiming for a 145-147 with the ability to play 25hz up to 50hz.
zayres29 Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Posted January 28, 2014 before you start flaming me im talking about the caps that snowdrifter used in his build and im pretty sure that AMI is using something similar too it seems price/performance is way better than a massive bank of batteries with snow only have one d1400 and a cap bank he only drops like .2v am i missing something He will drop more than .2v after playing a little bit longer. Actually I can play for 20 minutes straight. That .2v drop is more from front-back voltage drop than it is a lack of power that is all im looking for who plays their system for longer than that full tilt anyway thats just asking for something to go wrong Btw that was the first person. Ever banned by me while dropping a deuce. Feel privileged
SnowDrifter Posted January 28, 2014 Report Posted January 28, 2014 Let me put it this way: I play until the magnets on my subs get hot ~~~~~~~~SAY NO TO PHOTOBUCKET~~~~~~~~ Snow's DD-1 tracks here: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/167433-snows-dd-1-tracks/ My take on OFC vs CCA: https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/110381-things-that-piss-you-off-in-the-car-audio-world/?do=findComment&comment=2461444
zayres29 Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Posted January 28, 2014 Let me put it this way: I play until the magnets on my subs get hot the way you are setup you can play however you want for as long as you want isnt that the point of a proper electrical system to relieve as much stress from any one component as possible the caps are added to relieve the alt while it charges the batteries... luckily in a car most all of this happens at the same time while its running and setup properly anyways Btw that was the first person. Ever banned by me while dropping a deuce. Feel privileged
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