n8ball2013 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Another thing you have to look at is the purpose of the battery. Deep cycle batteries like the xs and kinetiks etc that are aimed at car audio have been designed to be discharged and recharged over and over again. A telecom battery or a battery used in an ups are meant to be charged and hold that voltage until power is killed and then provide enough power to maintain service until power is restored, switch to alternate power or gracefully power down the hosts. These are all factors to look at. THERE IS NO BUILD LOG! 1998 Chevy Silverado ext cab Alpine CDA-9887 4 Team Fi 15s 2 Ampere Audio TFE 8.0 2 Ampere Audio 150.4 3 Digital Designs CS6.5 component sets Dual Mechman 370XP Elite alternators inbound! 8 XS Power d3400 6 XS power d680 Second Skin Stinger Tsunami Wiring Sky High A Real Voltmeter not a piece of shit stinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan @ XSpower Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Batteries do not store power over their resting voltage. Anything over their resting voltage is a residual charge and will be gone as soon as a load is placed on the battery. would this be where good capacitors come into play anyone else refreshing this page like a crackhead Regular capacitors NO. Super Capacitors yes if you pair them correctly with the battery power you have and the amperage draw you have. thanks nathan i know what i am doing for electrical now i know this is off topic but will you guys ever start a line of super capacitors I can neither confirm nor deny what is sitting on my desk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockFord_Expedition Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 The amount and quality of lead in the battery determines the capacity of the battery. The grid pattern on the lead plates, intercell connectors, and internal design determines how quickly the battery can discharge that capacity. For instance our 16V and 14V batteries. We have the light S version and the heavier D versions. They are the same physical size with the same internal design, but the S is lighter. Only weight to lighten the S version was to take lead out of the battery, which in return gives is less reserve capacity. You have a trade off with weight v/s capacity. You can get more power per battery if you buss a bank of smaller batteries together, because bussing them together optimizes the internal pressure in the batteries. Now this means if you have 5 small batteries and buss them together each of those 5 batteries will individually produce more power than they each would standing by themselves. This however does not increase each individual batteries capacity. Would LOVE, LOVE to learn more about this. Can you elaborate. More power...... as in voltage, discharge rate? Very curious. Old School/New School RF Build March 2015 SOTM Winner How to crimp large wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordlordboy1234 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Yeah, Lets keep this thread rolling! My old YouTube channel : http://www.youtube.com/user/SwordLords1234?feature=mhee My old build log : http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/161872-96-accord-b2-sundown-sky-high-dc-power-re-re-build-for-heatwave/page-37 My New Build - http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/207041-2016-mazda-6-sql-build/ 2016 Mazda 6 Touring JL Fix 86 - OEM signal correction B2 prototype DSP 6to8 B2 Ref63 - 3 way active set 2 B2 Class H quattro's 1 B2 Zero.5R @.5 2 B2 HNv3 12 d2 B2 SLIP40 - Lithium in the trunk Northstar Group 35 under the hood 100ft 2/0 welding cable 30ft 4ga welding cable 20ft 8ga welding cable All stinger OFC speaker wire Soundrive custom RCA's Tons of attention to detail.... Can it be perfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockFord_Expedition Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 i know this is off topic but will you guys ever start a line of super capacitors I can neither confirm nor deny what is sitting on my desk Mother of god. Take my money. Old School/New School RF Build March 2015 SOTM Winner How to crimp large wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRTC360 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 True. I always question people who "don't have voltage drop" when they run big amplifiers but only a single alternator. This is because they have so much box rise that the amp may be seeing 4+ ohms and not putting out enough power or drawing enough current to create that voltage drop. perfect example is my own car. I ran a DC3.5k at 1ohm on a single g34 redtop and 180 amp alt for around 6 months with no issues. My pair of XFL 12's were in a box that was 3.5 cubic feet GROSS. And according to my understanding the smaller the box the more box rise, also around tuning is when you have the highest amount of box rise too. Box was tuned around 28hz, anything low I would hold low 13's to mid 12's full tilt, the second I played above 45hz I dropped down to high 10v. '93 Firebird Formula V8 H/U- Kenwood eXcelon KDC-X395 Mids/Highs Amp- Hifonics ZXI80.4 Wiring-KNU RCA's, Speaker Wire, And Two Runs Of Trystar 1/0 G34 Red Top and a 180amp Ford Alternator www.youtube.com/TRTC360 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan @ XSpower Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Mmmmmmmmmmm, me likey this thread Keep in mind, as Nathan mentioned, batteries don't charge up to 14.4V. They have an internal resistance to overcome which is why you need to charge at 14.4V in order to get a resting voltage of ~13V. That 1 volt or so is lost in the charging process. Also as mentioned, caps (super) don't have this limitation and will hold power at any voltage, within their rating. So a bank of super caps would be very helpful in the range of 13 - 14.4V to help stabilize your voltage. Agree on the super caps comment, but running a bank of just super caps is a huge waste of money compared to building a bank of super caps that is sized for your bank of batteries. Both have their advantages and disadvantages when compared against each other, but when paired together CORRECTLY you can get the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan @ XSpower Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 The amount and quality of lead in the battery determines the capacity of the battery. The grid pattern on the lead plates, intercell connectors, and internal design determines how quickly the battery can discharge that capacity. For instance our 16V and 14V batteries. We have the light S version and the heavier D versions. They are the same physical size with the same internal design, but the S is lighter. Only weight to lighten the S version was to take lead out of the battery, which in return gives is less reserve capacity. You have a trade off with weight v/s capacity. You can get more power per battery if you buss a bank of smaller batteries together, because bussing them together optimizes the internal pressure in the batteries. Now this means if you have 5 small batteries and buss them together each of those 5 batteries will individually produce more power than they each would standing by themselves. This however does not increase each individual batteries capacity. Would LOVE, LOVE to learn more about this. Can you elaborate. More power...... as in voltage, discharge rate? Very curious. Instantaneous discharge capability. The will deliver more power individually when bussed together. Money wise it doesn't work out, but I would take a bank of 5 or 6 D680 over a single D3100 for a burp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockFord_Expedition Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I see. You compare 2 different battery setups with equal capacity, the bank with the greater number of smaller batteries will react quicker to dynamic loads. Makes sense. Old School/New School RF Build March 2015 SOTM Winner How to crimp large wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicks Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Mmmmmmmmmmm, me likey this thread Keep in mind, as Nathan mentioned, batteries don't charge up to 14.4V. They have an internal resistance to overcome which is why you need to charge at 14.4V in order to get a resting voltage of ~13V. That 1 volt or so is lost in the charging process. Also as mentioned, caps (super) don't have this limitation and will hold power at any voltage, within their rating. So a bank of super caps would be very helpful in the range of 13 - 14.4V to help stabilize your voltage. Agree on the super caps comment, but running a bank of just super caps is a huge waste of money compared to building a bank of super caps that is sized for your bank of batteries. Both have their advantages and disadvantages when compared against each other, but when paired together CORRECTLY you can get the best of both worlds. Good point! Any tips on how to properly match supercaps to a battery bank? The amount and quality of lead in the battery determines the capacity of the battery. The grid pattern on the lead plates, intercell connectors, and internal design determines how quickly the battery can discharge that capacity. For instance our 16V and 14V batteries. We have the light S version and the heavier D versions. They are the same physical size with the same internal design, but the S is lighter. Only weight to lighten the S version was to take lead out of the battery, which in return gives is less reserve capacity. You have a trade off with weight v/s capacity. You can get more power per battery if you buss a bank of smaller batteries together, because bussing them together optimizes the internal pressure in the batteries. Now this means if you have 5 small batteries and buss them together each of those 5 batteries will individually produce more power than they each would standing by themselves. This however does not increase each individual batteries capacity. Would LOVE, LOVE to learn more about this. Can you elaborate. More power...... as in voltage, discharge rate? Very curious. Instantaneous discharge capability. The will deliver more power individually when bussed together. Money wise it doesn't work out, but I would take a bank of 5 or 6 D680 over a single D3100 for a burp. Another very good point! Would I assume correctly that, similar to electrolytic capacitors, a bank of small caps will have a much lower ESR each then one larger cap. Therefore the group of smaller caps can release energy faster then the single larger cap. So the same could apply to a battery bank? This post sent with 100% recycled electrons. 2004 BMW M3Mechman 280A 2 - XS Power XP30001 - XS Power D375 500F of Maxwell SuperCaps (soon to be 1000F) iPadMini2Dash mounted O-scopeAudison bitOne (Remote DRC MP) Highs Amp - PPI Art A404 Hertz HSK130 (HSK165 waiting...) DC Audio DC9.0K 2- DC Audio XL12m2LEGAL - 147.3dB @ 41Hz OUTLAW - 150.2dB @ 45Hz OUTLAW - 145.7dB @ 30Hz JUNE 2014 SOTM WINNER 2014 COLORADO PEOPLE'S CHOICE WINNER SOTM BUILD:http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/141656-wicks-e46-m3-build-bass-turbo-button-and-a-big-new-addition/page-68#entry2802026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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