Real world amp tests

[kirill007]

Same boards, same layout, same value capacitors, same (or very similar) fets...very similar toroid windings...what else could make these different power output wise?

Red:doesn't dictate anything, except that the manufacterer didn't even take the time to change the layout to properly (or change the layout to make a smaller amp) suit the heatsink they are using, unless it's the same one.Which in most cases it is. (There are a few guidelines, so you can't change the layout too much really.)

Orange: Even if the written value is the same, the actual capacity might be very different and the construction of the capacitor will change the output characteristics (some are slower then others and vice versa), tolerance can be different or the capacitors aren't placed strategically(the capacitors with a actual higher tested capacity are distributed equally along the board).

Green: very similar? Based on looks or type number? Both can be almost the same but that 1 type number of a difference can mean a difference in performance.

Blue: Again, similar isn't the same unless measured, even if you only measured the guage of the windings and the amount of windings. Some brands use copper coated aluminium instead of real copper to fool people. (What glue is used to keep the windings together, high temperature, high strength or not?) How thick is the enamel coating, what is it made of?

White: Input's, the guage of wiring used inside the board to transmit the power, What is the total length path that the power has to travel through in the amp? How much of the output is filtered? Which gate driver was used,...

[audiofanaticz]

Another thing I completely forgot about is pc-b thickness, actual traces on the pc-b and their thickness, and material as well.

The point is, just because the amp has the same board design, doesnt mean its the same amp. Sure sometimes it could be the same exact amp in a different heat sink, but that does not always hold true either.

But for some reason a huge majority seem to think that because its the same pc-b and sometimes even the same build house that automatically means the amps are the same in all ways which is almost always far from the truth.

Which makes me wonder back to the saz-4500, skar 4500.1, bc5500, and dc 5.0k why do they all have a different color board. Sundowns is a ugly brown color,DC's is a purdy blue color, and Skar and Crescendos are both red. Maybe the companies just specified the color of their boards to be different, but I wouldn't think that would be the case because who would want a brown pc-b.... LOL
So Im thinking there is something more to the whole pc-b color ordeal. Even though they are all said to be Korean made, is there something more to it like i mentioned above???? Maybe 1 or 2 of those amps are using a cloned or copied board from another build house, maybe the board is being produced at an outside source than Korea because its even cheaper yet.

Me, I have no idea but it just stir up some questions that frankly we will never know.

But one thing I do remember is one of these manufactures doing a test at .5ohms dynamically iirc and it put out some nice numbers, but also in the videos you heard the amp protect circuit kick in and put the amp into protect on the first burst of the track...

You can also noticed that the AD-1 automatically stopped its testing of the amplifier because the 40hz detection and distortion lights stopped blinking every second or so like they do on a dynamic test which backs up the amp going into protect, and the AD-1 sensed something wrong on the 2nd burst for the dynamic test and automatically stopped the test like its designed to do.

Also another company dyno'ed another one of these same board amps at 1ohm dynamic and almost got the same power as the above company at .5ohms dynamically.

Im not going to name which companies are which, but there are not too many people with the AD-1 and only 2 of the 4 companies actually have the AD-1, and the 3rd one a rep for the company has an AD-1 so finding said videos is rather easy and very interesting to watch.

[Afficionado]

You are correct. but they all will be in a "range", there won't be any t4000's doing 1000 or 9000 watts. They may do a range from 5000-5400 (random, arbitrary numbers to make my point).

I mean, no reputable company will make a 1000watt rms amp and sell it as a 4000watt rms amp. So I guess that doesnt reallly make your point, all it does is show how bad some companies are like those 1180 watt sonys that are 35watts by 4. LOL

However there are birthsheets for the t40001bd that are like 4300wrms at 1ohm and rather low, while others are very high. From some of the amps your talking a 1600wrms difference which is something most wont hear side by side listening to them, but a Term-Lab will surely point it out.

Here is one for 4500 @ 1ohm from a user on the forums here

The point i was making was that amps will all come out in a "range".

And how does that sony amp in any way disprove my point? All of them will still be in a range, even if it is not what they're rated for. If one does 35 @4, you're not going to see one doing 500 @ 4.

That's interesting, but that's at 1% THD, and IIRC, Steve tested the t4k on dynamic, which is to clipping, and is not 1% distortion, right?

Amps generally do a significant amount more when tested certified as compared to certified.

[audiofanaticz]

The point i was making was that amps will all come out in a "range".

And how does that sony amp in any way disprove my point? All of them will still be in a range, even if it is not what they're rated for. If one does 35 @4, you're not going to see one doing 500 @ 4.

That's interesting, but that's at 1% THD, and IIRC, Steve tested the t4k on dynamic, which is to clipping, and is not 1% distortion, right?

Amps generally do a significant amount more when tested certified as compared to certified.

Im confused significant amount of more power when tested certified as compared to certified???

Im guess you mean certified to clipping compared to certified @ 1%thd?

Even some amplifiers being tested dynamically they dont make much more than they do to clipping or 1% thd.

You will notice this a lot on some of the budget budge stuff out, or alot of the oldschool stuff that Big D tests, with some of the amps only being 20watts or less difference between the certified 1% test and the certified to clipping tests.

My whole point was just because one model amp makes rated power, doesn't mean a different amp from that same model would make the same power, or may make way over the rated power due to many different tolerances of the parts being different and the only way to be assure of the amplifiers always making said rated power is to under rate the amplifier by a big bit. The old RFs are a prime example of the wide range in power that they make, but also known for being heavily under rated but all making their rated 4000wrms. That was it...

As for other companies that put crazy numbers on the heat sink or the box of a product that says 1180watts, I consider that a rating even though the majority of audiophiles know it would never do that especially when it has 2 15amp fuses sticking in the side of the amp. But none the less its still a rating, especially to that novice customer that sees that box and goes wow this amp is 1180 watts! Its a rather deceiving rating at best "if lightening strikes type scenario".

[Afficionado]

The point i was making was that amps will all come out in a "range".

And how does that sony amp in any way disprove my point? All of them will still be in a range, even if it is not what they're rated for. If one does 35 @4, you're not going to see one doing 500 @ 4.

That's interesting, but that's at 1% THD, and IIRC, Steve tested the t4k on dynamic, which is to clipping, and is not 1% distortion, right?

Amps generally do a significant amount more when tested certified as compared to certified.

Im confused significant amount of more power when tested certified as compared to certified???

Im guess you mean certified to clipping compared to certified @ 1%thd?

Even some amplifiers being tested dynamically they dont make much more than they do to clipping or 1% thd.

You will notice this a lot on some of the budget budge stuff out, or alot of the oldschool stuff that Big D tests, with some of the amps only being 20watts or less difference between the certified 1% test and the certified to clipping tests.

My whole point was just because one model amp makes rated power, doesn't mean a different amp from that same model would make the same power, or may make way over the rated power due to many different tolerances of the parts being different and the only way to be assure of the amplifiers always making said rated power is to under rate the amplifier by a big bit. The old RFs are a prime example of the wide range in power that they make, but also known for being heavily under rated but all making their rated 4000wrms. That was it...

As for other companies that put crazy numbers on the heat sink or the box of a product that says 1180watts, I consider that a rating even though the majority of audiophiles know it would never do that especially when it has 2 15amp fuses sticking in the side of the amp. But none the less its still a rating, especially to that novice customer that sees that box and goes wow this amp is 1180 watts! Its a rather deceiving rating at best "if lightening strikes type scenario".

Lol,yeah, it was a typo. I meant certified as compared to uncertified.

You are correct though, on a lot of the really cheap amps, certified and uncertified tests aren't much different, but i'm willing to bet on a rockford T4k it would be a couple hundred watts.

In a few months there will be a test of a T3k, so that will be cool.

I'm not disagreeing that there is a variance in power between the same model amps.

[Kyblack76]

is there some video im not seeing? or missing?

[BoomZoom808]

is there some video im not seeing? or missing?

Not yet

[Afficionado]

is there some video im not seeing? or missing?

Good things will come to those who wait.

It will come!

[WillistonAudioLabs]

is there some video im not seeing? or missing?

<<< This guy has some Amp Dyno test videos you can check out while you are waiting

[Afficionado]

Heres a teaser while you wait. Check out his other videos too!