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[Weigel21]

I still want to know how this guy finds the clean output level of the head unit with his ears. Remember, internal amp of the HU and preouts don't always distort at the same level...

And even in the crutchfiled article he linked in another thread (which he convieniently ignored once someone called him out) they set the H/U gain with an oscope.

From the Crutchfield Article.

"A sine wave sounds like a hum. When it distorts, you can clearly hear it buzz. Again, the 100 Hz tone was the first to buzz, and at the exact same 51 volume setting. With the receiver at that top distortion-free level, I played the tone again and turned up the amp’s gain until I could hear the tone buzz again. Then I backed it off until the hum alone remained. The place the gain knob was set and the voltage readings were exactly the same as it had been using the scope.

I did this test after working hours so no one else would be disturbed. But I proved to myself, at least, that the ear-and-tone method worked just as well and as accurately as using a scope. The 40 Hz tone couldn't really be reproduced by the speakers, so was useless. The 100 Hz tone rattled everything on the desk, so it was a little difficult to pick the buzz-point out of the crowd of reverberations. The 400 Hz tone was the best tone to detect clip-points, with a very clearly defined hum-to-buzz point"

So I may well be a cheap stubborn bastard, I'll accept that, but it seems you're illiterate.

[MrSkippyJ]

fine. from the same article. This is probably where you leave the thread since it's about to argue against everything you say.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-vH90YMKwQKF/learn/setting-amplifier-gain.html

Why you fail to mention that they used an o-scope to set the source is beyond me. You are just talking out of someone else's ass and refuse to do anything to prove what you think other than linking some article that is doing nothing other than trying to increase traffic to it's site to boost sales.

Part 1: Setting the gain with the oscilloscope

How loud can the receiver play and still play clean?

I started with the amp’s gain set to its minimum, and the speakers disconnected. I played the first tone, 40 Hz, a low bass note, only fit for subwoofers, and set the scope to view the sine wave. Then I turned up the receiver’s volume until I could see something bizarre happening to the wave’s shape. It didn’t “clip” at the top and bottom, it distorted in the middle. But I could see exactly at what volume level the distortion first appeared, and where it disappeared.

[Miguels]

not this again

[MrSkippyJ]

dude is determined to prove he is right without actually doing a damn thing to prove he is right. He must think if he keeps saying it people will begin to believe him.

And here is the crazy part...he could be right, he might be just as accurate using his ear. But he won't do shit to prove it. I will never understand why people make claims like this and refuse to back it up.

[Quiet]

Oh shit, thread over, someone quoted Crutchfield.

Really, I don't understand why it's so important to some people to spread unresearched mistruths. This thread is a prime example of what's wrong with the internet. How can you argue the merits of either method of setting gains unless you've done them all?

For the result of acquiring the most undistorted power from your amplifiers, it's hard to beat the value of a DD1.

[Miguels]

im not saying he cant either.. im asking if its accurate as to using a tool.

its like you cant tell how much HP a car has by looking at a burnout.. you can guess and be close but to be accurate you need the dyno

[MrSkippyJ]

im not saying he cat either.. im asking if its accurate as to using a tool.

its like you cant tell how much HP by looking at a burnout.. you can guess and be close but to be accurate you need the dyno

Right there with you man. I wish people would understand that if you make claims like that you need to be able to back it up. If he had charts that compared gain settings using an oscope vs ear and they all matched, it would make for a much more interesting conversation. Even then though you would have to consider individual ears and how people interpret sounds. It's crazy to make a blanket statement that any ear can be just as accurate as a tool.

[gally]

I still want to know how this guy finds the clean output level of the head unit with his ears. Remember, internal amp of the HU and preouts don't always distort at the same level...

And even in the crutchfiled article he linked in another thread (which he convieniently ignored once someone called him out) they set the H/U gain with an oscope.

From the Crutchfield Article.

"A sine wave sounds like a hum. When it distorts, you can clearly hear it buzz. Again, the 100 Hz tone was the first to buzz, and at the exact same 51 volume setting. With the receiver at that top distortion-free level, I played the tone again and turned up the amp’s gain until I could hear the tone buzz again. Then I backed it off until the hum alone remained. The place the gain knob was set and the voltage readings were exactly the same as it had been using the scope.

I did this test after working hours so no one else would be disturbed. But I proved to myself, at least, that the ear-and-tone method worked just as well and as accurately as using a scope. The 40 Hz tone couldn't really be reproduced by the speakers, so was useless. The 100 Hz tone rattled everything on the desk, so it was a little difficult to pick the buzz-point out of the crowd of reverberations. The 400 Hz tone was the best tone to detect clip-points, with a very clearly defined hum-to-buzz point"

So I may well be a cheap stubborn bastard, I'll accept that, but it seems you're illiterate.

ok on some point lets say maybe you got the thing...but what iff.....

from my experience...i used to get it by ear until i burned a couple of woofers real quick

got it on a car audio shop...they fucked up my RE XXX sub with their tunning by ear...while they were testing the amp with it

so that same day i went to a friend in Pordenone(about 3hr ride), and he DD-1 my amp,...results..>beats everything, every damn setting the gain thing

it can be heard without any clip, and it was louder than before

so..im not arguing with you at some point...just proving that an O-scope or better a DD-1 its really the most best way to calibrate your amp...

now for trying you dont need to buy this luxurious tool (which is not se expensive at all) you could just ask/look around if someone has the o-scope or better the DD-1

PS: was also a Ear-o metter ˝belliever˝ TILL I SET IT WITH dd-1

[OrionStang]

This is still going?

Damn.

Still trying to understand how DD-1 users are simply "sheep of the flock". Was that an insult?

If a tool is effective, ill use. Don't care who made it. I hang from no nuts.

[Weigel21]

I have no idea how to "prove" my point when I haven't access to a DD-1 or Scope to back it up. However, I can clearly hear when the test tone changes from a hum to a buzz. My HU, a Sony DSX-S200X seems to distort at volume level 30. How did I find this? I played various test tones with the internal amplifier feeding the signal to a single speaker that was removed and sitting on the seat so as to not cause any vibrations in the rear deck that could have been misconstrued as distortion. I played 1kHz, 750Hz, 600Hz, 500Hz, 250Hz and 100Hz. Oddly enough, the 500Hz tone is the one that distorted first at volume level 30, all the others could play at higher levels before they distorted.

Want a video? I can make one, but again, I can't check with a DD1 or Scope. Sort of wish I could so I could either prove myself wrong, or get those of you riding my ass to lay the fuck off. However, I'm not about to spend $150 on the DD1 just to prove a point. Someone said they are $115 or something at one time, maybe in this thread (IDK) but I've never seen them for thaty, not that I'd be too inclined to buy even then. Well... perhaps I'll take that back, I could probably turn around and sell it for that or little less and not have wasted any money on a product just to prove a point.

The DD1 detects 1% THD, which is the point where many can hear distortion. I'm just not seeing how it's any more accurate for most. And the accuracy is the only thing I'm debating.