Krakin Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 Paper is pretty much the most common material to use in woofers as it is a nice flat (response) material and is reasonably rigid. This is a small write-up on different materials, I would post my main article I use, but either the site is down or shut down cause none of it will load. http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-drivers/diaphragm-material Krakin's Home Dipole Project http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/186153-krakins-dipole-project-new-reciever-in-rockford-science/#entry2772370 Krakin, are you some sort of mad scientist? I would have replied earlier, but I was measuring the output of my amp with a yardstick . . . What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the two streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums An acoustic event has dimensions of Time, Tone, Loudness and Space Everyone learns to render the 3-dimensional localization of sound based on the individual shape of their ears, thus no formula can achieve a definite effect for every listener.
SQL50 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 That resonance that your getting in the low frequency spectrum is not audible. Like you said a metal or stiff composite has a ring to it.. Unless your trying to play a subwoofer at like 300+ hzish your never going to notice. & a sub is never going to be used for that range anyways. If were talking mids & highs material makes huge differences.
Krakin Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 Materials make an ungodly amount of difference. That is why there is so much research put into them specifically. Krakin's Home Dipole Project http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/186153-krakins-dipole-project-new-reciever-in-rockford-science/#entry2772370 Krakin, are you some sort of mad scientist? I would have replied earlier, but I was measuring the output of my amp with a yardstick . . . What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the two streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums An acoustic event has dimensions of Time, Tone, Loudness and Space Everyone learns to render the 3-dimensional localization of sound based on the individual shape of their ears, thus no formula can achieve a definite effect for every listener.
SQL50 Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 I had a source to back my claim. It would be nice If a vendor would conduct that test, If I'm right ok. If I'm wrong ok, I learned something. I honestly don't see why a cone material would make a tonal difference, being that it's reproducing low frequencies, which is essentially slowed sound waves. The quality of that reproduced sound I think is everything else wrapped in a nut shell. Other soft parts, moving parts, motors, magnets, spiders etc etc. Maybe even the weight of the cone, but everything the same except the cone materials, cone materials weighing the exact same. I just don't see hearing a difference. People say polypropylene sounds different than paper cones. Why? Did they mention it was two different manufacturers? Did they mention the builds of the woofers was completely different? What about the enclosures? One in the wrong app can give someone the wrong impression on it, but that's getting off in another ball game. Higher frequencies are more detailed, a voice, a symbol, an instrument. I could see how cone material makes differences there being as the sound gets, what I would call tighter, more detailed, more musical. I respect everyone's opinions and analogies, that's just where I stand on it. Like I said, maybe a vendor can do a test on it, I would love to see it.
Krakin Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 Let me get back to the computer and write up something hopefully the original paper I wanted to link works now. Just a quick little bit though. Tone is all through the material. Krakin's Home Dipole Project http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/186153-krakins-dipole-project-new-reciever-in-rockford-science/#entry2772370 Krakin, are you some sort of mad scientist? I would have replied earlier, but I was measuring the output of my amp with a yardstick . . . What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the two streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums An acoustic event has dimensions of Time, Tone, Loudness and Space Everyone learns to render the 3-dimensional localization of sound based on the individual shape of their ears, thus no formula can achieve a definite effect for every listener.
hoit Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 tuned in for knowledge...I can see where SQL is coming from...and I can see Krakin's point of view as well...look we can actually have forum conversations without someone being an ass or getting butt-hurt! 2007 Chevy Aveo Ls sedan 2 Sundown Xv2 on scv4k @ .5 ohm 2 pair RE XXX 6.5 components on sax200.4 @ 2 ohm Big Three, Three runs 1/0 power from front to back, 1 ground front to back Two runs ground from rear bank to chassis XS power d3100 upfront, 3 Odyssey 2150s in bank Singer 220 amp alt
SQL50 Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 Alright, but a quick question. If tone is all through the material, then how come I can listen to a particular brand that has a certain cone material, and another brand that has the same cone material and hear a difference? So I can go buy a $60 12 in sub, or I can buy a $400 12 in sub with the same cone materials and they'll sound the same?
Krakin Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 The whole system determines that, and if you want to isolate the system to just the speaker then you still have to look at the surround in use, the type of spider, the frame design, the magnet structure/linearity, the weight of the moving mass, inductance of the coil(s), the Gauss of the magnets, the temperature/humidity, and countless other factors. The reason that the cone composition is such an important factor is because it directly affects many of these factors (besides the environment of course). There is no one perfect material for speakers or even woofer (yet) that will perform the best in all aspects. You can even have the same manufacturer with the same model speaker and have them sound drastically different. This is where Polypropylene shines, it is easily injection molded into a very consistent shape and has a high internal dampening. I'm still trying to find some publications that deal specifically with the woofer, but remember woofers as we know them haven't been around for very long at all. Here are a few that talk slightly about them in their content. http://www.pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/07_Misc_Downloads/Cone_Diaphragm_Mtls.pdf https://www.jim.or.jp/journal/e/pdf3/52/10/1966.pdf http://www.stonessoundstudio.com.au/stone/diy_speaker_info/diy_driver_types_p3.htm This one is a bit optimistic when it comes to paper, but paper has been proven to be a top choice time and time again. http://www.mother-of-tone.com/speaker.htm Eminence's current stand on cone materials and other parts. http://www.eminence.com/custom-oem/speaker-components/ It's really hard to get much information from companies/researchers on this topic as if anyone discovers something they tend to keep it to themselves as so others don't profit from their findings, as well as I haven't payed to become a member of AES, Audio Engineer Society. Krakin's Home Dipole Project http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/186153-krakins-dipole-project-new-reciever-in-rockford-science/#entry2772370 Krakin, are you some sort of mad scientist? I would have replied earlier, but I was measuring the output of my amp with a yardstick . . . What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the two streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums An acoustic event has dimensions of Time, Tone, Loudness and Space Everyone learns to render the 3-dimensional localization of sound based on the individual shape of their ears, thus no formula can achieve a definite effect for every listener.
SQL50 Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 Think this is where I'm gonna chime out. Same manufacturer, same sub, sounds different? Were all screwed. OP, to answer your original question without all this thinking, science & crap, whatever material sub you choose, put it in the right box, app etc and it will sound good.
Joe X Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 One simply can not judge the performance of a speaker/subwoofer based solely on cone material.
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