What is this phenomenom with Crossovers?

[Qwiz]

Greetings.

I think I have resolved my issue after many tries trial and error I think I got this finally. I would be happy if anyone has a good explanation towards an amateur in this domain.

So I have experienced muddy sloppy bass output for a long time. Could not figue it out why.

I own a setup on which the LPF is always On and cannot be turned off. It happens on a Pioneer 80Prs together with JL Rd 1000. 

 

The LpF settings cannot be turned off to Pass on neither. Alright. So I had to find the right LPF Settings on both to somehow work. I didn't think this could be an issue. It f was. There were countless times I thought I fixed it though after a few more test tracks I realized it's still the same,a little better or worse, but still not sounded how I used to remember it should sound.

 

With my recent settinga I can confirm now 100% clean bass output, enjoyable regardless of volume. 

 

Why are these sesttings the right ones?

 

LPF HU 80PRS: 200Hz Slope 12 db

LPF Amp JL 1k: Lowest ( < = 50Hz)

 

It really plays clear now. The Sub is an ESX at 800W RMS 2Ohms in a slot port reflex 50L Box.

 

[Mike4068]

Hu highest value possible 

Amp whatever point you want 

Assuming that you are going to be settling at 80 or under on the amp, setting the hu high will still send full signal strength to the amp at those frequencies. 

[slowfkncar]

The LP on the rd1000 goes up to 500hz, well beyond anything you need from that woofer.

you could always max the rd1000 lpf and only use the 80prs as your LPF, if your bass sounds muddy at the higher frequencies (60+) it could be install,eq related.

[Qwiz]

I did. I maxed the LPFon the Rd 1000 to 500 and then set it to 80 or lower on the 80prs. In thissituation, no matter the crosspoint on HU, bass is very muddy unclear. I thought maybe it was the box or something. Even with it at 50Hz on the Pioneer it still seemed the woofer would play upper bass like over 90Hz or so. Very frustrating. I didn't understand what was going on, even now I don't get it. If on the Hu its on 50 hz where do these upper bass freq come from anyway. Its like the amp is getton under 50Hz or whatever the point I set, then the amp ADDS signal to it Idont know.

 

It is one of those situations in life. takes a very long time to understand what is goin on

[Casparado]

I think it has something to do with the phase shift that crossovers inherently have. I don't know the science behind it (it's way over my head) but there can be major phase issues when you use crossovers in series. By setting the head unit to the highest point you are eliminating the first crossover and avoiding the phase cancellation issues. I wonder if this can also be achieved by switching from a second order (12db slope) to a 3rd or 1st order. You can google crossover phase changes and find a LOT of technical info about it, but be prepared for a lot of head scratching...

[Qwiz]

I have for the front system another amp. On the HU I leave the HPF on Pass and set it on the amp to around 70 80. And for the LPF I leave it on the HHU at max 200Hz while on the amp JL is on minimum at 50Hz.

 

With these settings I play a test song and before I play it, I set the Fader all the way to the REAR, which mutes the Front system and only the Sub plays. Even at the lowest crosspoint 50 hz Vocals are a bit noticeable. Is this Normal? 

 

Is the Rd 1k a good amp? Why didnt they put a knob or something on it for us to be able to switch the LPF to Pass full Signal idk...

 

It sounds way better but I think its still not perfect with those vocals. Its just like the LPF on amp doesnt wanna cut enough. Like the Crosspoint at 200Hz on the HU or amof set at any value influences the Amps LPF and I get high freqs output on the sub, this "uuuuuu" keep hearing at some low freqs are over emphasized. And to counterattack it I have to Eq a little bit like -3-4 db @ 80hz or so.. Very frustrating. Why cant it sound normal this useless thing. I am strugglin with this fo a while now I am sick of it

[Mike4068]

I prefer to use the crossover on my amp because it has a slope of 24db/oct while the 80prs only goes to 12db/oct 

[Kyblack76]

32 minutes ago, Mike4068 said:

I prefer to use the crossover on my amp because it has a slope of 24db/oct while the 80prs only goes to 12db/oct 

That is just a slope or how violent the cut is. You could x over higher but with less slope, and see about the same thing. A higher slope or cut doesnt mean better. By all means, do what's best for you, but I also love a 6db slope on my cuts for a bit of blending,  especially on my mids. 

[Mike4068]

37 minutes ago, Kyblack76 said:

That is just a slope or how violent the cut is. You could x over higher but with less slope, and see about the same thing. A higher slope or cut doesnt mean better. By all means, do what's best for you, but I also love a 6db slope on my cuts for a bit of blending,  especially on my mids. 

I like the steep slope as I don't have components. I find that the steeper slope works better for my coax speakers as I can crossover lower. I never said it was better but that I preferred it. 

[Qwiz]

Crazy. It is about preference but it is ultimately about quality I strongly think. Like how it sounds from a nice pair of in ear earphones, how perceive a clear bass wave there, like that should be heard in a car too, plus the pressure feeling, but all must remain clean.

 

Allow me to correct myswlf, the HPF on the Front S amp is set @50Hz too so I get all freqd. I still dont get why vocals are coming out of sub regardless of crossover settings. Why doesnt it allow only that fine cutting low bass wave instead it adds that "uuuuuu" overemphasis to it I dont know