Quiet

seeing as cone area multiplies SPL pretty linearly, Xmax needs 4x to double SPL (6db). Guestimate math says 6 type R subs... Woofer Porn FTW!

x2 You can't "de-clip" music. One the peak has been plateaued it's there forever. Lowering it doesn't do anything but make it quieter like BJD3 said. The flat spot in the music will still get amplified and played through the speaker, which in turn will tend to overheat the coil. Play enough of these songs loud enough and you got Quiznos... Toasted Subs. It realloy depends on what your definition of "Clipping" is. If you take it in the sense that the waveform is squared off at the top, yes you can fix it, but just a little bit. The track will still have the distortion present and as previously mentioned any information that was above the waveform is now gone. When I get off work tonight, I will post pictures illustrating my point. When the top of the waveform is clipped off, that's clipping. That's the definition. Don't know that there's any other definition, IJS. It's in a different place in the audio reproduction chain than your amplifier (which most associate with clipping, as it's the most popular cause of a clipped signal) but that is still clipping. Any time there the waveform is flat and not at 0, that's bad for subs... the coil needs constant movement to cool itself and voltage without movement (Direct Current) will toast subs. Lowering the level at which this occurs doesn't do much if you are adjusting the volume to get it just as loud as it was before you attempted to "de-clip" the track. The flat spots have just as much amplitude. in order to really fix that, you'd have to have an algorithm to interpolate clipped samples, and then you'd have tons of distortion in the signal. You could go and graphically move each clipped sample yourself to try and fix it, at 88,200 times per second of audio, have fun with that. Just like once you compress a CD to mp3, you can never make it sound like a CD again. EDIT: After hearing all the crap edits, shitty mp3s, chopped n' screwed, etc. floating around on teh internets, I'm thinking improper amplifier gains are no longer the #1 source of clipping...

x2 You can't "de-clip" music. One the peak has been plateaued it's there forever. Lowering it doesn't do anything but make it quieter like BJD3 said. The flat spot in the music will still get amplified and played through the speaker, which in turn will tend to overheat the coil. Play enough of these songs loud enough and you got Quiznos... Toasted Subs.

If you had ray design your box. I BET Ray could make it just as flat as a sealed box with alot more output.. maybe not as flat but still ported can go flatter than sealed... sealed has a higher rolloff, generally speaking.

Not nuthugging Ray (ok maybe a little) but I agree, go with the Ascendant Audio Havoc subs. I think as far as output you may do well to do a single AA 12 over a pair of w3's. JL does have decent SQ, but is a bit overpriced for what they are. I have heard only one setup with those subs but they were surprisingly clean. IMO JL Audio is well known for being well known. They were the shit back in the 90's but I think everyone else has eclipsed them in terms of quality for the price. And I know you didn't ask but I'm just throwing it out there... ported will be clearer than sealed at higher volumes. (sealed>ported=sq)=

If they're thinking you're gonna be cheaper than prefab, just let them go prefab. Walmart sells them for $30. Some people will want form over function, and care more if it's pretty than if it's loud. A custom box is always better than prefab, but it sounds like these people may not appreciate the differences. If they're paying 4 to 6 times or more they may be scrutinizing your box's appearance and wondering why they paid so much... they won't hear 6x better sound (their opinion), and they may think you ripped them off. You be the judge, but remember you can't win everyone over.

Damn of all fucking weekends... You're right, I'll be there!

I'm glad there's finally an event less than a day's drive from me! I miss shows and I haven't been to one since I lived in Florida. Hell, there you couldn't avoid shows LOL. Hopefully I'll make it there, It's my wife's birthday this week...

I feel ya, I figured you were on a mobile but people just had to see that vid! I have a bitch of a time trying from my android... I usually give up and wait til i get home. BTW that's bad ass!

Your URL was messed up. Fixed EDIT: Daaaaaammmn!

Sounds like the "broken clock is right twice a day" phenomenon here. I believe that as a general rule, you shouldn't mix different drivers to reproduce the same range of frequencies. Different driver have a different color of sound, a tonal balance, if you will. Instead of getting the "best of both worlds" you usually get the "worst of both worlds" since the driver's sound won't tend to mix well. You also tend to lower your dynamic range since you can only get as loud as your weakest link... if a sub tends to bottom out at a certain frequency when the other one has a few dbs left to go, you will only go as loud as the weaker sub. But I am absolutely sure that there are more guys out there than Tech Force that have been successful running different drivers to reproduce the same frequencies, but the percentage of these guys just getting it right off the bat is really low, for sure. That's my .02

I'll give you that. But I have seen their Constant Power, and that's a real innovation. You're right the CP is sick!! But all those companies basically market to an entire different crowd!! I'm kinda happy that they exist so that every kid that wants to spend 1k on a system with NO knowledge can't be as loud as me! Only the people that study and put their blood sweat and tears into this will be able to hang, and that's why it's my hobbie let those companies make their low end shit with high end prices, so the people that want to be posers can waste their money instead of working at it like me Who wants to be a poser hard working people that spend their money on a system then pay us to install it and really enjoy how it sounds? Yeah well most people just go buy jl and shit without studying first and they are getting ripped off. All I'm saying is it's fine by me because I know where to get good shit and I don't need your ass to install it for me to sound good. I'm glad not ever little fucker in my town knows about sundown, fi, aa, dc, dd, aq, t3 and all the other good shit because it would make MY hobbie a lot less interesting and fun. That's all I'm saying. Very good point. and there's a goddamn huge lot of companies with two-letter names out there, just sayin' EDIT: yay that's my 300th. Now where's the 18+...

if you spent the same money on AQ, you'd have one sub. LMAO! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: EDIT: it'd still be louder.

I'll give you that. But I have seen their Constant Power, and that's a real innovation.

and a broken clock is still right twice a day. Doesn't mean that Sony is any good, really. I bet if the same dollar amount was spent on AQ with the same quality of install, it'd be louder. EDIT: I mean no disrespect to OKI by the way. He has mad skills and I'm sure that sony works for him... The man's got his reasons i'm sure.

Exactly right. It's 80% install. I want to see what would happen, though, if the same attention to detail was applied to DC or AQ gear. Now, I've had sony amps before. Average fare. I've had Sony headunits. They newer they are, the shorter they last. I have not purchased a Sony Sub. After I heard a couple of them in boxes built for them, I wasn't impressed. I don't hate on sony because I think they suck. I hate on them because they're average. The company just seems to have that mentality on car audio that good enough is good enough. JL fits in this category now, not like they used to be in the 90s. As far as I'm concerned, Sony is in the same boat as Pyle, Lanzar, BOSS, and JL audio. When they were new brands in car audio, they rocked, but now that they're aged, they've settled for good enough and are just coasting on their namesakes' coattails. (Yes, even Pyle was a decent brand way back when.) I don't see that mentality in brands like DC, DD, AQ... they don't settle and continue to innovate. Even RF as old as they are (the pretty much pioneered high end car audio) is keeping the ball rolling so age shouldn't have anything to do with it. We are not in car audio because we will settle for what big names say is good enough for us. /rant

I use the M4-ATX on a daily basis... I build carputers for school buses and this is the most tricked out PS ever. Every bell and whistle you can imagine is in it. The documentation on it kinda, no, really sucks. It took me a while to figure it out, so if anyone needs help with it PM me!

That should be a production car. Too bad it would never be one, but what about a kit car, like the Shelby Cobra or a Dino kit?

yeah, I've heard bass I couldn't believe from a TLine. A friend of a friend i knew in Florida had one with a 8" dayton in it. You could totally believe it was a 12" sub with a few hundred watts until you saw it. Bill Fitzmaurice has some interesting designs too, if you are interested in such, although it may be too big for a car. www.billfitzmaurice.com

yeah i think Dayton Audio makes an analyzer for about $100.

Um, since your woofer is being built custom, you might not have the T/S for it yet to use WinISD, so forget I said that...

T-Line http://www.stevemead...torial-updated/ EDIT: You can also build your box a little bigger than recommended then tune a little lower. Takes some experimentation depending on the cabin gain curve of your car. Try loading your specs in WinISD Beta to see what you might get.

Polyfill will flatten out your response curve, but just a little. It will also reduce standing waves that tend to color the sound a bit. All my first enclosures were sealed, as I didn't have the balls to go ported. I will never go sealed again. With the subs I've used in the past, they all seemed to like vented boxes better, especially when really reaching for SPL. Sealed tends to get muddy when you push it but vented just keeps on going.

x2 Got any pics of it installed yet? I'm wondering how it looks in the car. Not knocking it at all, but that would look great next to my couch as a home theater sub enclosure too.

Well, the reason they're both great for enclosures is that they DON'T resonate (a lot) in the passband of normal subwoofer output. I like birch because it's light but it's more delicate to work with (splinters) than MDF. MDF on the other hand machines more consistently so sawing and using a router on edges is easier IMO. Also, MDF does not absorb water very easily. I think the other poster was thinking of particle board, which should not be used for sub enclosures, because particleboard DOES absorb water easlily and that it splits when drilled or screwed on the spine. at Lowe Depot, birch is $10-15 more than MDF, but I found lumber yards that specialize in hardwoods seem to carry birch and it's about $35 a sheet. It's worth a glance in the Yellow Pages.