Fish Chris Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yea.... SMD gave me a sample of SS and it seemed really thin, and light. Hmmmm. I guess if it does as good a job as other brands which are thicker and heavier, that's all fine and good..... But I'd really like to see some totally unbiased sound deadening comparison / reviews. Fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Skin Rep Jon Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I would too. Biggest issue is that the people who want to do a comparison of all of these products have no clue on how to test them and we just end up with dozens of products being shoved in an oven and baked at 350°F for an hour... adhesion isn't really an issue for most of these products these days (with exception of those that are still using asphalt or bitumen as a part of their adhesive/damping layer) and isn't a deciding factor in how well the product performs. What they need to do is test the products ability at controlling, reducing, and withstand vibrations. This has to be done in a controlled environment and with the ability to repeat the same test(s) over and over again with limited human error. Now I have spent a lot of time, effort and money on my own and devised a testing method and tested quite a few of these products before I was with Second Skin and fairly recently as well (to see where Alpha Damp and a few newer products stacked up at). Obviously I can't release ANY of this data I have collected since there would be a whole hell of a lot of arguing as to how I handled the tests and how bias the information is. I have a huge list of products, from the most popular to the most obscure. Most expensive, cheapest, thinnest, thickest, etc. Weight per sq. ft., total thickness, constraining layer thickness... all of that good stuff. Here are just some of the products I've played with: So yeah I would love to see some unbiased testing done... anyone want to volunteer? Quote Have a question about Second Skin? E-Mail me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maticus Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) I would too. Biggest issue is that the people who want to do a comparison of all of these products have no clue on how to test them and we just end up with dozens of products being shoved in an oven and baked at 350°F for an hour... adhesion isn't really an issue for most of these products these days (with exception of those that are still using asphalt or bitumen as a part of their adhesive/damping layer) and isn't a deciding factor in how well the product performs. What they need to do is test the products ability at controlling, reducing, and withstand vibrations. This has to be done in a controlled environment and with the ability to repeat the same test(s) over and over again with limited human error. Now I have spent a lot of time, effort and money on my own and devised a testing method and tested quite a few of these products before I was with Second Skin and fairly recently as well (to see where Alpha Damp and a few newer products stacked up at). Obviously I can't release ANY of this data I have collected since there would be a whole hell of a lot of arguing as to how I handled the tests and how bias the information is. I have a huge list of products, from the most popular to the most obscure. Most expensive, cheapest, thinnest, thickest, etc. Weight per sq. ft., total thickness, constraining layer thickness... all of that good stuff. Here are just some of the products I've played with: So yeah I would love to see some unbiased testing done... anyone want to volunteer? I would love too, but the only way I'd really be able to is with some cans using say 2-4 sq inches per can, can falls from same height with camera (microphone) at same distance every time. Then using an audio program I would strip the audio from the video and compare the amount of sound each can produces. If you see this as viable I would love to do this. Also can do weight, pliability/flexibility, ability to form to curves etc. Edited October 18, 2011 by Maticus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
412 CVX Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I would too. Biggest issue is that the people who want to do a comparison of all of these products have no clue on how to test them and we just end up with dozens of products being shoved in an oven and baked at 350°F for an hour... adhesion isn't really an issue for most of these products these days (with exception of those that are still using asphalt or bitumen as a part of their adhesive/damping layer) and isn't a deciding factor in how well the product performs. What they need to do is test the products ability at controlling, reducing, and withstand vibrations. This has to be done in a controlled environment and with the ability to repeat the same test(s) over and over again with limited human error. Now I have spent a lot of time, effort and money on my own and devised a testing method and tested quite a few of these products before I was with Second Skin and fairly recently as well (to see where Alpha Damp and a few newer products stacked up at). Obviously I can't release ANY of this data I have collected since there would be a whole hell of a lot of arguing as to how I handled the tests and how bias the information is. I have a huge list of products, from the most popular to the most obscure. Most expensive, cheapest, thinnest, thickest, etc. Weight per sq. ft., total thickness, constraining layer thickness... all of that good stuff. Here are just some of the products I've played with: So yeah I would love to see some unbiased testing done... anyone want to volunteer? hahah i'd do it just to keep the stuff in all honestly Quote Just say no to Ground Pounder Customs. My temp system build log More box buildssome cars do over 170db with one sub, so clearly my two 12"s can do that in my car, with my knowledge too! look out bitches! I'm with captain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpballer64 Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 what kind of testing would need to be done? like actual in vehicle testing or like lab testing of strength, reduction of resonance, and stuff like that? Quote "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6berry Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 So yeah I would love to see some unbiased testing done... anyone want to volunteer? me!!! Quote 1999 Audi A4 1.8T::: 4 - DC Level 3 10's in a 4th order Rockford P6002 on Subs for now (3-3.5k coming eventually) MB Quart ONX4.60 for Mids and Highs Boston S50 Components in Front Boston S65 Coaxials in Rear 40 Sq Ft of Second Skin Damplifier Build Thread UBL 1948 Plymouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Chris Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Sorry.... I posted another thread on the subject, before I saw the latest replies here.... But in my mind, the best way to test these products would just be to treat 1 door of a vehicle with a particular SD product, crank up a frequency sweep right outside of that door, and read the sound coming through with a Term Lab. Record results. Rip out product 1, and install product 2. Repeat process. A lot of work, but definitive. Fish Edited October 18, 2011 by Fish Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Skin Rep Jon Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 You would need to do lab quality testing. Vehicles have way too many variables, you can't control the environment (unless you are in an enclosed area). And you would need to insure that they are installed and tested at the same temp. Issue with using aluminum cans is that they are extremely thin (something like .0047") and most vehicle's are made with 22 gauge steel (.0313 inches), something like 6.5 times thicker. Just to give you an idea, the standardized testing method (Oberst Bar SAE J1637/ASTM E-756) uses a 1.56mm thick bar (0.0614") as the substrate for the damping material. Quote Have a question about Second Skin? E-Mail me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpballer64 Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Sorry.... I posted another thread on the subject, before I saw the latest replies here.... But in my mind, the best way to test these products would just be to treat 1 door of a vehicle with a particular SD product, crank up a frequency sweep right outside of that door, and read the sound coming through with a Term Lab. Record results. Rip out product 1, and install product 2. Repeat process. A lot of work, but definitive. Fish A better way would be to use a sheet metal of similar thickness in a lab with a directional microphone and use a different piece of sheet metal for each damp that way there is no possible residue on the metal, plus after multiple tests a single sheet could start having minute physical deformations that could interfere with results over time. Quote "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpballer64 Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Jon your reply occured while i was typing lol Quote "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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