Butyl Rubber surrounds on a DC, anyone ever done it?

[the_garynator]

I've always loved the look of butyl rubber surrounds. I've done some research on rubber vs foam and the general concensis is to stay with whatever the speaker came with.

I did see in a thread that increasing moving mass results in a lower FS (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/foam-vs-rubber-vs-accordian-cloth-surrounds-31032/). I am reconing my Level 5 M1s and I would think that this wouldn't be such a bad thing (I'm tuning low, and using them for music, vs. SPL).

I also noticed that there isn't a whole lot of information comparing the two in a large car subwoofer setting, it seems that most of the comparisons/information on the subject revolve around small home audio drivers. I'm not sure if this matters, and I would guess the info still applies, but I'm curious if it matters as much when you're talking about something as massive as a lvl 5 vs a small sq woofer (i.e. maybe it wouldn't be as noticeable).

Has anyone experimented with switching to a rubber surround vs. the standard DC foam types?

If not, maybe Rusty may be able to comment on the subject since he designed the drivers.

Also, I'm not expecting any gains or benefits other than cosmetic, I'd just like to know if this is possible to run without totally ruining the performance.

[CortezDTV]

Rubber is way better

End of thread

EDIT:

im assuming the reinforced surround for the xl, lvl 5, lvl 6, is rubber

Edited October 26, 2012 by CortezDTV

[Raptorman]

Rubber is way better

End of thread

You are awesome at backing up statements.

[the_garynator]

Rubber is way better

End of thread

If rubber is way better, why doesn't Rusty use it? I would guess that it wouldn't cost much more, especially when you're talking lvl 4xl or higher. I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious.

[CJ18]

I have nothing technical to add to this because I honestly don't know, so that will have to come from rusty.

BUT

If the rubber surrounds were better, don't you think that everyone would be using them? AA, Fi, DD, Sundown, DC. All of these companies use the foam surround. I would think if there was an overwhelming better option that at least one of the listed companies would be using it.

[CortezDTV]

Isn't the reinforced surround rubber?

Did I miss something

Fi uses a un reinforced surround (no strechy mesh inside), where as the dc, I thought used a rubber one with mesh for the reinforced ones, then the lower levels like the lvl 2. 8s sure seem like foam... they look rubbery and are rubbery to the touch....

EDIT:

for pics and

Rubber is way better

End of thread

You are awesome at backing up statements.

foam

^^^foam that looks rubbery....

and off to find the pic i want

shit.... i cant find it

when i reconed i didnt think the reinforced surround was very "foamy" seemed like rubber compared to some others ive cut open

Edited October 26, 2012 by CortezDTV

[the_garynator]

Found some more info here: http://reconingspeak...efoaming-faq-2/:

Can I use a butyl rubber surround instead of foam" I hear it doesn’t dry rot.

The short answer is yes, but not easily. We are often asked if a butyl rubber surround lasts longer than a polyfoam surround. In reality, it does last longer, but it does dry rot just like the polyfoam. You might gain some time, but some experts believe you will experience a small bass loss as well. It is difficult to find the right size butyl surround and they are difficult to work with as they don’t hold their shape well and do not adhere well to the cone or frame. Also, bear in mind that if a speaker has been designed for a woofer with a foam surround, if you change the set up, you are changing the factory parameters. If you are determined to have a butyl surround, in most cases, the speaker can be reconed. There are many more cones that come with a butyl edge as opposed to individual butyl surrounds.

I've heard adding more spiders raises the FS of the sub as well as providing more control when playing below tuning frequency. So assuming switching to butyl rubber lowers the FS of the sub, you could theoretically add more spiders or stiffer ones to offset the decrease in FS but gain the benefits of the added control?

Sorry for all the questions and whatnot, I'm just trying to understand a little more about speaker design/why things are done certain ways and the physics behind it vs. someone just saying "do this" or "get this".

It'd be awesome if Rusty could chime in on the subject. My biggest question is how big of an effect/how noticible switching to butyl surrounds on an 18" m1 lvl 5 would make. And what effects those would be.

Thanks for the responses guys

Edited October 26, 2012 by the_garynator

[the_garynator]

Isn't the reinforced surround rubber?

Did I miss something

Fi uses a un reinforced surround (no strechy mesh inside), where as the dc, I thought used a rubber one with mesh for the reinforced ones, then the lower levels like the lvl 2. 8s sure seem like foam... they look rubbery and are rubbery to the touch....

EDIT:

for pics and

foam

^^^foam that looks rubbery....

and off to find the pic i want

shit.... i cant find it

when i reconed i didnt think the reinforced surround was very "foamy" seemed like rubber compared to some others ive cut open

CortezDTV, the reinforced surrounds are still Foam. the difference is that they have a mesh in them as well that makes the foam more resistant to tearing (i.e. the non-reinforced surrounds on thorshammer's 10" lvl 5s kept tearing because they didn't have enough roll for the woofer's throw and because the foam tears so easy they didn't hold up)

A lot of component/coaxial mids and highs have butyl surrounds. There are a lot of subs that have them too like the RF punch hx2s, Skar vvx's, etc.

Edited October 26, 2012 by the_garynator

[thorshammer]

I have indeed tried rubber surrounds back when i had team xl motors. They worked great but had to short of usable throw and I would pull it off the cone every burp.

The reinforced surrounds are foam with a nylon interweave and thin rubbery type outer layer.