ST Lous, MO Shooting

[philrab]

This commentary is why I always cringe when non LEO/Military start explaining how LEO and Military should do their jobs. The training, mentality, instincts aren't there. Most importantly, in a life or death combat situation you get brief moments in time to make a decision to survive or be killed, and as a result the decision making process has to be stripped down to the least number of variables. Is your life in danger? If so, shoot till that is no longer the case. End discussion.

On the other hand, civilians/politicians/bystanders/everybody with their God given opinion gets hours/days/weeks/months to pick apart that split second decision, and the benefit of hindsight. Personally, I just don't think that's fair.

[LT.Smoke]

Idk what to think about the video. He was kind of asking for it but they definitely shot too many times.

Just an FYI for anyone without military or LEO experience, standard protocol when utilizing deadly force is you continue to lay down fire until you have neutralized the threat.

In other words: once you make the decision to shoot, you keep dumping rounds till you run out, or the guy hits the ground. That doctrine is pretty standard, and is in place due to experiences in law enforcement and military where it took multiple rounds (particularly 9mm or .38) to drop a guy.

Not going to get into the debate about whether the guy was shot too many times (whatever that means), I'm just pointing out that an officer shooting an assailant a half dozen times isn't indicative of anything other than the officer following his training.

Exactly. If you're gonna fire, you keep firing until the threat is CONFIRMED neutralized. Just because dude hit the ground doesnt end the threat.

*Magazine, not clip.

And people, please stop saying they dumped on him.

9 rounds

between 2 officers

which means 2 guns

Even if they had little Ruger LCPs, which has a capacity of 6+1, would mean they would have had to have fired off 14 rounds to dump their mags on him.

Pretty sure I can guarantee that no cop carries an LCP as their service arm on duty. Unless it's an ankle 2nd or 3rd gun.

The way I see it,

First 4 shots guy is still on his feet, 5th shot, guy is falling, 2 as he hits the ground and is rolling towards the one cop, last 2 as he makes his final roll up on his side right in front of the cop and the cop is backing up.

Also, not like the 9 rounds killed him instantly, if you watch you can see him still moving his arms around up to seconds before they put the cuffs on him.

So they didn't cuff a dead man, just a dying one.

Taser effectiveness: Look at 2:08, replace the stick with a knife, and tell me you want to use a taser instead of a real gun when someone is threatening you.

Rubber bullets/beanbags: Why in the flying fuck would you load up rubber bullets in the gun that is supposed to protect your life?

Or, beanbag shotgun that that may or may not be in their vehicle... "Uh, 'scuse me Mr. Knife-wielding psychopath I have no idea of history on, could you please hold on one moment while I get this other gun from the truck to shoot you with so I won't kill you but can then instead put you under arrest and charge you with a Class II Felony?"

I have seen this on 3 other forums now, so I may be mixing in some parts of other convos onto this one as far as other options.

Thank you for breaking this down. Lots of frustration coming from this.

As we all know neutralizing the threat in a large majority of cases means ending the assailants life ... NOT always but more times than not

It is a shame the people choose to make bad choices that result in losing their lives but it is the wonderful world we live in

[hershy314]

There was a story on the news tonight in St Louis bout how a knife wielding suspect was tazed and not shot. I didn't watch it, but it's interesting how how one is tazed and the other was shot.

[OrionStang]

There was a story on the news tonight in St Louis bout how a knife wielding suspect was tazed and not shot. I didn't watch it, but it's interesting how how one is tazed and the other was shot.

So without knowing any facts about this latest incident, you want to stir the pot and try to argue that tazer would have been the right way to go with the soda thief. The soda thief charged the police acting all crazy and shit. What was the demeanor of the suspect in this new story.

It is case by case, and at the end of the day these officers have to decide what course of action will allow them to go home after shift.

[Skullz]

Here is my take on LEO's (Life Ending Officers)

[hershy314]

There was a story on the news tonight in St Louis bout how a knife wielding suspect was tazed and not shot. I didn't watch it, but it's interesting how how one is tazed and the other was shot.

So without knowing any facts about this latest incident, you want to stir the pot and try to argue that tazer would have been the right way to go with the soda thief. The soda thief charged the police acting all crazy and shit. What was the demeanor of the suspect in this new story.

It is case by case, and at the end of the day these officers have to decide what course of action will allow them to go home after shift.

No, holy crap I just said it was interesting how the same situation (person with a knife) was handled differently. Only person I see trying to stir the pot is you. Sure each situation is different. This other guy could of been shot dead just like the soda thief for all I know. This other suspect that was tazed, didn't make any moves towards the cops. He just refused to drop the knife. The cops could of shot him, but didn't. The used their tazers. Not saying the other cops were in the wrong. Ok now I don't anyone to take this the wrong way. But the suspect that was shot was black and shot by two white officers. This other suspect was white and tazed by two black officers. http://www.kmov.com/news/just-posted/One-day-after-fatal-officer-involved-shooting-officers-found-themselves-in-eerily-similar-situation-272328611.html I'm just repeating what the news said. To me there is no race, we are all people. Weather we want to admit or not.

[OrionStang]

There was a story on the news tonight in St Louis bout how a knife wielding suspect was tazed and not shot. I didn't watch it, but it's interesting how how one is tazed and the other was shot.

So without knowing any facts about this latest incident, you want to stir the pot and try to argue that tazer would have been the right way to go with the soda thief. The soda thief charged the police acting all crazy and shit. What was the demeanor of the suspect in this new story.

It is case by case, and at the end of the day these officers have to decide what course of action will allow them to go home after shift.

No, holy crap I just said it was interesting how the same situation (person with a knife) was handled differently. Only person I see trying to stir the pot is you. Sure each situation is different. This other guy could of been shot dead just like the soda thief for all I know. This other suspect that was tazed, didn't make any moves towards the cops. He just refused to drop the knife. The cops could of shot him, but didn't. The used their tazers. Not saying the other cops were in the wrong. Ok now I don't anyone to take this the wrong way. But the suspect that was shot was black and shot by two white officers. This other suspect was white and tazed by two black officers. http://www.kmov.com/news/just-posted/One-day-after-fatal-officer-involved-shooting-officers-found-themselves-in-eerily-similar-situation-272328611.html I'm just repeating what the news said. To me there is no race, we are all people. Weather we want to admit or not.

I never mentioned race.

But thank you for acknowledging the difference in the attitude of the suspects.

[hershy314]

There was a story on the news tonight in St Louis bout how a knife wielding suspect was tazed and not shot. I didn't watch it, but it's interesting how how one is tazed and the other was shot.

So without knowing any facts about this latest incident, you want to stir the pot and try to argue that tazer would have been the right way to go with the soda thief. The soda thief charged the police acting all crazy and shit. What was the demeanor of the suspect in this new story.

It is case by case, and at the end of the day these officers have to decide what course of action will allow them to go home after shift.

No, holy crap I just said it was interesting how the same situation (person with a knife) was handled differently. Only person I see trying to stir the pot is you. Sure each situation is different. This other guy could of been shot dead just like the soda thief for all I know. This other suspect that was tazed, didn't make any moves towards the cops. He just refused to drop the knife. The cops could of shot him, but didn't. The used their tazers. Not saying the other cops were in the wrong. Ok now I don't anyone to take this the wrong way. But the suspect that was shot was black and shot by two white officers. This other suspect was white and tazed by two black officers. http://www.kmov.com/news/just-posted/One-day-after-fatal-officer-involved-shooting-officers-found-themselves-in-eerily-similar-situation-272328611.html I'm just repeating what the news said. To me there is no race, we are all people. Weather we want to admit or not.

I never mentioned race.

But thank you for acknowledging the difference in the attitude of the suspects.

No you didn't mention race, but it is mentioned a lot though else where. I saw the video, the other guy was acting crazy. I still don't agree with what they did, but I agree they did what they thought was best in the situation.

[Miguels]

the difference is one charged the officers the other didnt.. that gives the officer time to react differently.. if someone is breaking into my home, has a bat and charges at me, more than likely he will get shot and killed.. if he decides to run away instead, he more than likely will live another day

people need to stop using this bullshit thing about why one got shot why the other didnt. stop making it a racial thing.. the way people acts is what will determine if they will live another day..

someone posted about the Denver shooting and said because he was white.. no, he was smart enough to stay away from the weapon and wait for the cops

[Miguels]

first time i see the full video.. funny how no one witness what happen yet act like they know what went on and the officer are murderers