HHR Ed Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 It seems nobody here knows anything about sound quality. I see why home audiophiles laugh at the car audio scene. It is physically impossible for any 18" sub to produce any frequency and especially transient frequencies, as precise as any sub with a cone smaller than 18". It's physics. There's no way around it. And even more importantly, the difference in sound quality between any two different subs will be totally dependent on the signal it receives. IE: An 18" on a clean amp can sound better than a 10" on a dirty amp. Give them both a clean amp, and every time the 10" will sound cleaner, tighter, and more precise. I'd rethink your statements after you research a little more. There is actually no reason in physics that an 18" should not be able to produce the same frequencies and transients as smaller sub woofers. It is extremely possible that they can perform the same or even better at this. And we see this in Real World as well as theory. Differences in cone weight from a 10 to an 18 are 1 small factor in performance and actually have almost no bearing on these characteristics. If it did, we can also have a 10" with a Spruce pulp paper cone and then an 18" with a single layer Carbon cone. Now we have an 18 with a lighter cone than a 10. This kind of defeats your whole point now doesnt it? Ed Lester ShowtimeSPL Host Showtime Electronics Video MarketingMy old Build Loghttp://www.stevemead...08/#entry511451http://www.youtube.com/showtimespl 5 time dB Drag Finalist Last ride 2007 HHR, current dB 153.5 and bass race 149.4 dB. 153.0 dB on music New Ride, 2008 HHR SS. Build under way. Loudest score ever = 171dB 2009 dB Drag Racing, North American Points Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyG2 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 If a sub can move in and out 80 times a second to produce an 80hz tone, it should have no problem alternating between tones below that... *New vehicle and system coming soon.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrd6 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 haha in just to see if r0llinlacs comes back My Build Log: http://www.stevemead...-sundown-power/ Team NorthWestSPL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpnFosgates Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 someone needs to bring a system down to this lacs guy cuz he obviously not most intelligent guy when it comes to systms Lucky Durango Sony hu 4 croosfire 6.5mids crossfire 600.1 mono amp American bass 1280.4 mids and highs amp aq hdc3 12 2.4 cube net box, tuned to 34 and 14.4 inches of port per cube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfoland93 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 It seems nobody here knows anything about sound quality. I see why home audiophiles laugh at the car audio scene. It is physically impossible for any 18" sub to produce any frequency and especially transient frequencies, as precise as any sub with a cone smaller than 18". It's physics. There's no way around it. And even more importantly, the difference in sound quality between any two different subs will be totally dependent on the signal it receives. IE: An 18" on a clean amp can sound better than a 10" on a dirty amp. Give them both a clean amp, and every time the 10" will sound cleaner, tighter, and more precise. Isn't that why most people with larger subs use larger midbass woofers? Or at least a bunch of mid sized ones? 2 things 1. That is theory - a properly designed enclosure will allow it to hit higher frequencies just fine. 2. People will bigger subs do that because they are loud enough that they need to start investing in a really good front stage. The midbass drivers add to the akward 80-250hz range that is often times a dead spot in many systems. Not sure about you - but I don't want that sound coming from my subs. It would make it sound SO muddy regardless of the driver size (yes, tried it with an 8 inch sub with a fiberglass cone and a 10s, 12s and 15 inch sub with a normal cones. Same results) Okay, a properly designed enclosure would help. But it still doesn't change the fact that the 18" cone has a lot more mass and weight compared to smaller cones. It won't be able to "change" from say 80hz to 65hz anywhere near as quickly as a 10" would, simply because of the momentum of the heavier cone that the voice coil has to fight. Oh, and I love the two sighs I got, from people who obviously blindly disagree with me while obviously not having the knowledge to back themselves up... ok i got a question? even if the 18" didnt change as quick would it be noticable to ear? Depending on the type of music you listen to and the type of head unit, box, and amp, then yes, it can be very noticeable. And yes, depending on the force of the voice coil, and pull of the magnet, an 18" could sound as good, as long as that force is equal to or greater than the extra air pressure resistance because of the extra cone area. But let's face it, when is an 18" actually scaled to the size of a lesser sized sub? Unless it is, it won't have the ability to produce the same type of sound on a larger scale. It's a totally different sub. you still don't get it. And the mass of the cone has almost no effect in sound quality. The suspension of almost any sub will matter far more than the small weight difference between a 10" cone to a 18" cone. Why might a sub sound muddy? It was designed wrong and the suspension is to stiff. Not because the cone is larger. It makes almost no difference. EPIC quote tri-fecta The spot with least resistance LOL. I would ground to a rubber dildo if it had less resistance than a run of 4/0 wiring. how many poeple work there 3 or 4 lol At crescendo HQ? probably 2-3 At the sweatshop in china? 30,000 children No Engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
412 CVX Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 It seems nobody here knows anything about sound quality. I see why home audiophiles laugh at the car audio scene. It is physically impossible for any 18" sub to produce any frequency and especially transient frequencies, as precise as any sub with a cone smaller than 18". It's physics. There's no way around it. And even more importantly, the difference in sound quality between any two different subs will be totally dependent on the signal it receives. IE: An 18" on a clean amp can sound better than a 10" on a dirty amp. Give them both a clean amp, and every time the 10" will sound cleaner, tighter, and more precise. Isn't that why most people with larger subs use larger midbass woofers? Or at least a bunch of mid sized ones? 2 things 1. That is theory - a properly designed enclosure will allow it to hit higher frequencies just fine. 2. People will bigger subs do that because they are loud enough that they need to start investing in a really good front stage. The midbass drivers add to the akward 80-250hz range that is often times a dead spot in many systems. Not sure about you - but I don't want that sound coming from my subs. It would make it sound SO muddy regardless of the driver size (yes, tried it with an 8 inch sub with a fiberglass cone and a 10s, 12s and 15 inch sub with a normal cones. Same results) Okay, a properly designed enclosure would help. But it still doesn't change the fact that the 18" cone has a lot more mass and weight compared to smaller cones. It won't be able to "change" from say 80hz to 65hz anywhere near as quickly as a 10" would, simply because of the momentum of the heavier cone that the voice coil has to fight. Oh, and I love the two sighs I got, from people who obviously blindly disagree with me while obviously not having the knowledge to back themselves up... ok i got a question? even if the 18" didnt change as quick would it be noticable to ear? Depending on the type of music you listen to and the type of head unit, box, and amp, then yes, it can be very noticeable. And yes, depending on the force of the voice coil, and pull of the magnet, an 18" could sound as good, as long as that force is equal to or greater than the extra air pressure resistance because of the extra cone area. But let's face it, when is an 18" actually scaled to the size of a lesser sized sub? Unless it is, it won't have the ability to produce the same type of sound on a larger scale. It's a totally different sub. you still don't get it. And the mass of the cone has almost no effect in sound quality. The suspension of almost any sub will matter far more than the small weight difference between a 10" cone to a 18" cone. Why might a sub sound muddy? It was designed wrong and the suspension is to stiff. Not because the cone is larger. It makes almost no difference. EPIC quote tri-fecta It's QUOTE-CEPTION!!! Just say no to Ground Pounder Customs. My temp system build log More box buildssome cars do over 170db with one sub, so clearly my two 12"s can do that in my car, with my knowledge too! look out bitches! I'm with captain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfoland93 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 It seems nobody here knows anything about sound quality. I see why home audiophiles laugh at the car audio scene. It is physically impossible for any 18" sub to produce any frequency and especially transient frequencies, as precise as any sub with a cone smaller than 18". It's physics. There's no way around it. And even more importantly, the difference in sound quality between any two different subs will be totally dependent on the signal it receives. IE: An 18" on a clean amp can sound better than a 10" on a dirty amp. Give them both a clean amp, and every time the 10" will sound cleaner, tighter, and more precise. Isn't that why most people with larger subs use larger midbass woofers? Or at least a bunch of mid sized ones? 2 things 1. That is theory - a properly designed enclosure will allow it to hit higher frequencies just fine. 2. People will bigger subs do that because they are loud enough that they need to start investing in a really good front stage. The midbass drivers add to the akward 80-250hz range that is often times a dead spot in many systems. Not sure about you - but I don't want that sound coming from my subs. It would make it sound SO muddy regardless of the driver size (yes, tried it with an 8 inch sub with a fiberglass cone and a 10s, 12s and 15 inch sub with a normal cones. Same results) Okay, a properly designed enclosure would help. But it still doesn't change the fact that the 18" cone has a lot more mass and weight compared to smaller cones. It won't be able to "change" from say 80hz to 65hz anywhere near as quickly as a 10" would, simply because of the momentum of the heavier cone that the voice coil has to fight. Oh, and I love the two sighs I got, from people who obviously blindly disagree with me while obviously not having the knowledge to back themselves up... ok i got a question? even if the 18" didnt change as quick would it be noticable to ear? Depending on the type of music you listen to and the type of head unit, box, and amp, then yes, it can be very noticeable. And yes, depending on the force of the voice coil, and pull of the magnet, an 18" could sound as good, as long as that force is equal to or greater than the extra air pressure resistance because of the extra cone area. But let's face it, when is an 18" actually scaled to the size of a lesser sized sub? Unless it is, it won't have the ability to produce the same type of sound on a larger scale. It's a totally different sub. you still don't get it. And the mass of the cone has almost no effect in sound quality. The suspension of almost any sub will matter far more than the small weight difference between a 10" cone to a 18" cone. Why might a sub sound muddy? It was designed wrong and the suspension is to stiff. Not because the cone is larger. It makes almost no difference. EPIC quote tri-fecta It's QUOTE-CEPTION!!! Mind fuck The spot with least resistance LOL. I would ground to a rubber dildo if it had less resistance than a run of 4/0 wiring. how many poeple work there 3 or 4 lol At crescendo HQ? probably 2-3 At the sweatshop in china? 30,000 children No Engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amart88 Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 It's funny to sit back and watch how a topic slowly transpires into a debate and then to an argument haha My 2005 s10 blazer build. 4 zcon 18's walled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranny Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 directed towards rolling away lacs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyG2 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 It seems nobody here knows anything about sound quality. I see why home audiophiles laugh at the car audio scene. It is physically impossible for any 18" sub to produce any frequency and especially transient frequencies, as precise as any sub with a cone smaller than 18". It's physics. There's no way around it. And even more importantly, the difference in sound quality between any two different subs will be totally dependent on the signal it receives. IE: An 18" on a clean amp can sound better than a 10" on a dirty amp. Give them both a clean amp, and every time the 10" will sound cleaner, tighter, and more precise. Isn't that why most people with larger subs use larger midbass woofers? Or at least a bunch of mid sized ones? 2 things 1. That is theory - a properly designed enclosure will allow it to hit higher frequencies just fine. 2. People will bigger subs do that because they are loud enough that they need to start investing in a really good front stage. The midbass drivers add to the akward 80-250hz range that is often times a dead spot in many systems. Not sure about you - but I don't want that sound coming from my subs. It would make it sound SO muddy regardless of the driver size (yes, tried it with an 8 inch sub with a fiberglass cone and a 10s, 12s and 15 inch sub with a normal cones. Same results) Okay, a properly designed enclosure would help. But it still doesn't change the fact that the 18" cone has a lot more mass and weight compared to smaller cones. It won't be able to "change" from say 80hz to 65hz anywhere near as quickly as a 10" would, simply because of the momentum of the heavier cone that the voice coil has to fight. Oh, and I love the two sighs I got, from people who obviously blindly disagree with me while obviously not having the knowledge to back themselves up... ok i got a question? even if the 18" didnt change as quick would it be noticable to ear? Depending on the type of music you listen to and the type of head unit, box, and amp, then yes, it can be very noticeable. And yes, depending on the force of the voice coil, and pull of the magnet, an 18" could sound as good, as long as that force is equal to or greater than the extra air pressure resistance because of the extra cone area. But let's face it, when is an 18" actually scaled to the size of a lesser sized sub? Unless it is, it won't have the ability to produce the same type of sound on a larger scale. It's a totally different sub. you still don't get it. And the mass of the cone has almost no effect in sound quality. The suspension of almost any sub will matter far more than the small weight difference between a 10" cone to a 18" cone. Why might a sub sound muddy? It was designed wrong and the suspension is to stiff. Not because the cone is larger. It makes almost no difference. EPIC quote tri-fecta It's QUOTE-CEPTION!!! Mind fuck It's a quote, inside a quote, inside a quote... I must go deeper! *New vehicle and system coming soon.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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