Mitt Romney pays 13.9 % Tax rate. I pay 26%.

[Tarball]

Let me clarify my previous statement about rich people not just having money handed to them. I'm not talking about trust fund kids and Hollywood type. I'm referring to business men and woman.

Don't confuse a successfull business person with "the wealthy" there is a huge difference. I don't think there is any argument about people being successful. it about "the wealthy" paying a fair share, creating jobs, not hiding their sources of income, not moving a business from here to some other country to avoid taxes, etc etc. These things seem to be standard business practices for the wealthy. The even teach people how to invest betting against the success of the US dollar while they stall the economy.

[redbaron80]

Then can we compromise and both pay 19.5% taxes?

We can but it still won't work any better than what we have now and may potentially make things worse. If the rich have to pay more in taxes they are just going to pass the cost down the line and eventually the low and middle class people will pay for it anyway so there goes that tax break they get by going to a flat tax. The only way anything is ever going to get fixed with taxes and the economy is if we (the citizens of this country) make the government stop spending like they do but the only way that will happen is if we do away with career politicians. If someone can figure out a way to do that I will have their back 100% but as long as career politicians are in office they aren't going to let anyone take that away from them and unfortunately those are the people we need to make those changes happen.

Ok, then we can both pay 13.9%. Long as I get some kinda break:) along with the middle income folks. (Making under 100K)

[Tarball]

No, the number means nothing. The logic for the percentage makes sense for lower income because they little they have is important, so less taxes. The opposite would be true, that then those who make exponentially more would pay a bigger portion of their income. Youre looking at numbers but completely disregarding percentages.

My father averages 170k a year, last year i made 83k....we both agree the more you make the taxes you pay should be proportionate. It doesnt matter if he paid a million dollars in taxes, he still made 10 million.

Businesses (and their owners) have no incentive to expand or to create jobs when there are high taxes. Fewer jobs mean less money for people to spend on goods and services. With higher taxes to businesses, goods and services cost more, and people need more money to buy them. That means people need to make more money which they can't earn because there are fewer jobs. Get it?

People like you think that stealing from the rich to give to the poor creates demand for goods and services (because the lower class paying less taxes have more money) and then creates jobs. Wrong: Those who create businesses and jobs don't say: Now that the fruits of my success have been taken from me and I'm being penalized by having it redistributed to the masses, I think I want to work harder and for less money to create jobs for these same people.

Bottom-up economics is socialist economics, and socialism is a recipe for economic mediocrity at best. Let the examples of socialism around the world attest to that.

Wrong. Socialism? Im beginning to think you get all your information from fox news now. And to think there will be no incentive is just farfetched.

So explain to me what incentives there are to work harder for less?

I think you have summed it up right here. Look at how hard middle and low class people work...for much less. We all get out of bed and spend 8-12 hours a day working (some more some less). I don't know about the rest of the middle class, but i work my ass off every day and I am damn proud of it. But people out there, because their parents were filthy rich and making 10's of millions if not more $$$ per year. I'm not even going to start to look at the math of how much 1 minute of time is worth. It just doesn't make sense.

There is only a certain amount of money in circulation. When you have an economy that is based on consumers and a small population that has the majority of the money AND just want to sit on it and suck more money out of circulation...then ship it over seas...there are obvious problems.

Hard work should = good pay. Why do so many of us have to make, at best, just enough to get by while some are pulling in millions fo rminimal effort and screwing Americans.

They seem to have you convinced that we need to make them happy so they keep feeding us crumbs....I'n not convinced.

[CLNSHVNnDRAGGN]

I think you have summed it up right here. Look at how hard middle and low class people work...for much less. We all get out of bed and spend 8-12 hours a day working (some more some less). I don't know about the rest of the middle class, but i work my ass off every day and I am damn proud of it. But people out there, because their parents were filthy rich and making 10's of millions if not more $$$ per year. I'm not even going to start to look at the math of how much 1 minute of time is worth. It just doesn't make sense.

There is only a certain amount of money in circulation. When you have an economy that is based on consumers and a small population that has the majority of the money AND just want to sit on it and suck more money out of circulation...then ship it over seas...there are obvious problems.

Hard work should = good pay. Why do so many of us have to make, at best, just enough to get by while some are pulling in millions fo rminimal effort and screwing Americans.

They seem to have you convinced that we need to make them happy so they keep feeding us crumbs....I'n not convinced.

You’re right the middle and low class work hard for less but do you think they will continue to work that hard or harder if more is taken away from them? I doubt it so why would it be any different for the wealthy? I agree it sucks that there are these people out there with tons of money that they didn’t earn it but trace it back and at some point someone worked hard and/or took the risks necessary to get it. When they died they passed it on to their family or whomever they deemed worthy. That was their money and their decision. You also can’t put the blame on these same kids making ridiculous amounts of money on their own because society allows them too. Our society is so brainwashed into thinking that Hollywood is what it’s all about that they follow it like sheep.

As for people sucking money out of circulation and sending it overseas, if you don’t like it don’t buy their products and services. As long as people continue purchasing those products and services the companies will continue these practices.

I don’t think I need to keep anyone happy other than my family and myself. I don’t give a shit about the rich but I don’t believe people should be punished for being successful. You have to remember, shit flows downhill. If you take away from those on top it’s going to work its way back to the bottom.

[sundownz]

I'm not into the in depth debates online -- but I have a good small example with my own business. If my tax rate was lower today I'd have at least one more employee -- I could use someone but I just calculated my 3Q tax bill and it's not happening yet squarely due to that amount. Pre-Tax revenue = YES I could hire someone // After-Tax revenue = NO I cannot.

Also -- many people that "make" over $100k per year are sole-prop business owner as it's all filed under your SSN. They aren't necessarily wealthy in a personal sense by any means.

Most wealthy people have low rates because capital gains tax rate is so low compared to money earned by working a job. Simply apply the normal rate to other types of income and a large part of the issue would be solved as far as making the code more fair. Really... it's just TOO darn complicated to be fair. I don't claim to have the whole solution but the tax code really needs to be simpler.

[Ray]

Ron paul.

/thread

[redbaron80]

Get rid of all the excemptions and lower the rates overall.

[Tarball]

I think you have summed it up right here. Look at how hard middle and low class people work...for much less. We all get out of bed and spend 8-12 hours a day working (some more some less). I don't know about the rest of the middle class, but i work my ass off every day and I am damn proud of it. But people out there, because their parents were filthy rich and making 10's of millions if not more $$$ per year. I'm not even going to start to look at the math of how much 1 minute of time is worth. It just doesn't make sense.

There is only a certain amount of money in circulation. When you have an economy that is based on consumers and a small population that has the majority of the money AND just want to sit on it and suck more money out of circulation...then ship it over seas...there are obvious problems.

Hard work should = good pay. Why do so many of us have to make, at best, just enough to get by while some are pulling in millions fo rminimal effort and screwing Americans.

They seem to have you convinced that we need to make them happy so they keep feeding us crumbs....I'n not convinced.

You’re right the middle and low class work hard for less but do you think they will continue to work that hard or harder if more is taken away from them? I doubt it so why would it be any different for the wealthy? I agree it sucks that there are these people out there with tons of money that they didn’t earn it but trace it back and at some point someone worked hard and/or took the risks necessary to get it. When they died they passed it on to their family or whomever they deemed worthy. That was their money and their decision. You also can’t put the blame on these same kids making ridiculous amounts of money on their own because society allows them too. Our society is so brainwashed into thinking that Hollywood is what it’s all about that they follow it like sheep.

As for people sucking money out of circulation and sending it overseas, if you don’t like it don’t buy their products and services. As long as people continue purchasing those products and services the companies will continue these practices.

I don’t think I need to keep anyone happy other than my family and myself. I don’t give a shit about the rich but I don’t believe people should be punished for being successful. You have to remember, shit flows downhill. If you take away from those on top it’s going to work its way back to the bottom.

Working class does work harder for less. Most people that lost their jobs in the past few years that actually do have a job are making less money and working hard, there is no choice. It's work hard(er) for less or you don't get a job. I know as people have lost employment at my job over the past few years I have had to work much harder, guess what - no million dollar bonus (yeah - sarcasm).

Trace it back and someone worked hard has no value in an intelligent discussion. I'll just leave it at that.

I'n not putting blame on anyone. But the wokring and poor class shouldn't flip the bill so the rich don't have to notice the recession.

We can stop being consumers, that's part of the whole problem. It's the business practices that have to change. Keep the money in America. BUY STUFF don't sit on the money. Spend don't save! Completely contradictory to what make financial sense. But that is what the country needs... more money in the hands of people that spend it...in America. We just need to close the loop of the money leaving the country to sit in off shore accounts and tax shelters.

BUY BUY BUY!!!

[TeamHT]

Ron paul.

/thread

Me since 2001. Econ got me acquainted with him, and the more i read the more i loved.

Clean, tarball...your posts only prove my logic. Thank you

[CJ18]

Think about it this way. How much is 13.9% of what he makes? How much is 26% of what you make? When you look at the numbers that way, should we go to a Flat-tax system? It wouldn't work because either the people making more money would pay less giving the country less money or those of us that don't make much would have to pay more to equal what they pay and we can't afford it.

ETA: just went and looked at the site and you'll notice they only talk about percentages, no real numbers because the less informed people don't think about it that way.

Example- Someone makes $2 million/yr and pays 13%= $260,000

Someone else makes $35,000/yr and pays 25%= $8750

Still think they aren't paying their fair share?

Yeah they pay more total in taxes even with the lower percentage, but at the end of the day, if someone makes 2 mil and pays $260k in taxes they still have 1.74 mil in the same economy where stuff cost the exact same for them as it does everybody else.

1.74mil vs $26250

How is that fair? Taking a higher percentage from the little guys leaves them with less with alot to have to do with it. At the end of the day we all live in the same place where things cost the same for everyone, just because the rich are used to a certain life style doesnt mean anything, they dont have to spend 100k on a car, when a $50k car is just as nice, they dont have to eat at the finest restaurants and pay $200 per person for a meal. If you put that money back in the pockets of the middle class, that is how you grow the economy. Who do you think goes out and spends the most money? Yeah the filthy rich have more of it to spend on themselves, but its the middle class that go out and spend the most money and make the economy what it is.

So we should penalize the rich for taking the initiative to do something with their life and be successful? Let me put it to you this way. I looked at your build log, you have 6 DC lvl 3 15's. No one NEEDS that much bass and I don't have any 15's so you should send me at least 2 of them. I'm also gonna need some of that power, one of your alts, and some batteries. I didn't work enough to get that stuff on my own but you really don't need that much so just give it to me.

You completely missed my point. What I do with my money after taxes is up to me.

I paid 30% in taxes when I signed my first professional contract in 2006. This was over $400000. Yeah that was a ton of money, but you don't see me in here complaining about it.