Whiskey Tango Foxtrot (Im going off on a bunch of stuff)

[will77530]

and thats why you dont fuck with ninja

[Ninja_v1.0]

In closing you shouldn't hate anyones color or their part of a color as you so called. We will never move forward as a PEOPLE with your mindset like it is. It seemed like you were a little upset without knowing any facts as to why you were upset and upset at the wrong people at that.

Education is key!

Now I will disappear

[IBleedMusick]

obama is an IDIOT. my belief I hate his white half too..

And I am curious with the limitation on the amount that a clip can carry will it be applied to older current owned guns. Also what is the deal with all of the empty shelves of ammo.

If the Idiot in charge wants to ban or restrict guns he needs to do so also.

Now for more off topic stuff. WTF is up with the tax increase, I thought he said it wouldn't affect me if I made under 200,000 a year. but it has and his stupid supporters are sitting on the porch collecting a free check and drive a better car than me. and if the government wants to lower the debt stop giving dope heads and breeding machines free money.

What happened to "For the People, By The People". We need to do something to take this country back or it will not be here.

I want My AMERICA back!! where the people said GOD in school and if people got offended they didn't cry and sue. They took it like a grown person and carried on with their day. And when kids got paddled at school and then at home if they got in trouble. This would help with the problems we have with young adults and kids these days. The country is pussified and needs to grow some balls. Also if I wanted to see a guys ass (if i was gay id look at playgirl) So you Idiots please pull your freaking pants up,

Let me first start off by saying I respect your opinion you have on the current president as that is your American right. It seems like you are a little upset and sometimes when people are upset they same things that doesn't make sense or is not logical at all. Please don't take anything I say against you as offensive as I will try to be as civil I can in this discussion but I would like to address a few things. Also let me point out that I am not an avid Obama supporter nor do I like him because he is partially black.

You said and I quote:

WTF is up with the tax increase, I thought he said it wouldn't affect me if I made under 200,000 a year. but it has and his stupid supporters are sitting on the porch collecting a free check and drive a better car than me. and if the government wants to lower the debt stop giving dope heads and breeding machines free money.

I will address a few questions you had in regards to this statement.

1st, you shouldn't be upset with Obama as much as you should be upset with Congress. The reason your taxes went up was because Congress let the payroll tax expire which will now require you to pay 6% more of your paycheck. The last president that was in office ( Bush) enacted this tax cut that would allow more Americans to hold onto more of their income instead of sending it to cover the cost of Social Security. You should take the time and educate yourself on certain things like your taxes before making comments to fully understand them.

As far as your statement "but it has and his stupid supporters are sitting on the porch collecting a free check and drive a better car than me. and if the government wants to lower the debt stop giving dope heads and breeding machines free money" I will comment on this as well.

I hope you understand that mostly all systems there is someone that is going to take advantage. It happens all over, Wallstreet, Government, Gaming,Work it just happens. You can't judge and entire system based upon that people who are taking advantage of that system. Most of the people who are on Welfare or support are not sitting on the porch collecting a free check. Most are hardworking Americans who bussed their ass and have since fell upon hard times but you will only see and hear about the ones who are taking advantage of the system through your media outlet to let you believe that there is more bad than good coming out of this system. I will give you an example to help you further understand this, please keep in mind I do not know what you do nor the type of car you drive.

Example 1: Todd had a degree and was working on Wallstreet to support his wife and 2 kids. Todd did not live beyond his means and drove a nice Lexus which he was able to support being his income was over 100k/year. Todd saved during the time he was working and has a nice amount left in his savings and 401k. Then Todd got fired and had to be let go because of the market, mainly due to his boss who did not run the company as he should and cost hundreds their jobs. Although Todd did the best he could while he was employed he was still let go while his boss who ran the company into the ground not only was able to stay with the company but received Millions of dollars in bonuses.

Todd files for unemployment and now was able to get the max of 370 per week to help support his family until he is able to find work. Still not enough Todd then filed for state assistance and was given a certain amount of foodstamps to help him until he was able to get back onto his feet to again support his family. While on state assistance he was using the money he saved for his 401k and saving to keep the house payment, electric bills, car payment and other things afloat.

So now Todd who is now on state assistance is driving a better car than you, living in a better house than you.

You never know the whole situation so please don't make judgements until you have all the facts. If you want to be upset why don't you get upset at the members of Congress as they have better perks then these so called Obama supporters. I will give you just a few.

1) Congress gives itself a payraise and guess who votes on it? Congress

2) Congress pensions

The pension amount is determined by a formula that takes into account the years served and the average pay for the top three years in terms of payment. In 2002, the average pension payment ranged from $41,000 to $55,000. For example, a member of Congress who worked for 22 years and had a top three-year average salary of $153,900 would be eligible for a pension payment of $84,645 per year

The above was copied from Wikipedia

3)The base salary for a member of Congress is $174,000. But all members enjoy access to a separate piggy bank known as their "allowance." This funding generally goes toward maintaining their offices and building up a legislative entourage. In the House, representatives are allowed to spend more than $900,000 on salaries for up to 18 permanent employees. They get about a quarter-million dollars more for office expenses, including travel, and additional funding for a well-known congressional perk known as "franking." Franking is the term for the mass constituent mail sent out by members of Congress and paid for courtesy of the taxpayer.

Senators enjoy the same privilege but get a much bigger allowance for their office expenses. According to a Congressional Research Service report, the average allocation for fiscal 2010 was more than $3.3 million. Personnel money varies depending on how big of a state a senator represents -- a senator from New York is going to get more than a senator from Montana. But for starters, each senator is given a $500,000 budget to hire up to three legislative assistants.

The above was taken from fox news

If you want to get even further mad you can look into how many of the CEO's of companies that we bailed out that were able to get millions in bonuses and I am sure that all of these Ceo's have better houses, drive better cars and have better salary's than you do.

You make it seem like it's so easy to fix things in Washington, yet I do not see you proposing any laws, trying to get any bills passed, trying to assemble YOUR AMERICA as you claim to do something to take it back. I only see you here in a car audio forum upset over policies and bills in which you have no idea about. Ranting and raving but doing nothing to change. You are just as guilty as those people who are taking advantage of the welfare system you so hate and despise.

You should first get educated on the things you don't like or are upset about instead of blaming a president that WAS elected by the same America that you love. The MAJORITY voted him in not just those welfare sucking money hungry porch sitting fools you claim. THEN and on then after you educate yourself you are able to defend your views since you will have the information to do so.

While I do not like most of what the current president has done I still respect him as OUR president. I respect him because there were many blacks who lost their lives just so myself and others have a chance to vote and have our voice heard. I respect him because that's how I was bought up and raised and if there is something that I do not like or views that I can't stand then I make moves to get this changed instead of sitting here ranting and raving about shit that I have no clue about or what the media has spun up.

My suggestion is not to worry about those that you see who are driving a better car than you, my suggestion is you get off your ass and to the best you can to provide for you and your family. If you are doing that then I respect that and give you congrats. I suggest you educate yourself so you understand why your taxes went up, how congress works and other means of government besides going blindly by what you see from the media.

when the ninja makes a point....the ninja makes a point. took you so long.

With that said lock it up end thread.

[durango03]

May I add that Congress is a constant "give and take".. Dem's want blah blah blah, therefore they must approve blah for the Repub's in order to get their bill passed.

With that being said, Obama demands an unlimited spending budget. He WILL NOT budge and he literally said so. In order for this to happen, the government is required to create revenue. How do you create revenue? Raise taxes. This was the primary concern surrounding the "Fiscal Cliff".. how do make sure people are still able to survive on their own, without government assistance, and pay in more revenue.

Believe me, the Republicans dont like the idea of higher taxes NOR an unlimited spending budget for the president.. but hopefully they use their "Gimme" appropriately and help out the blue collar worker.

[armykyle1]

obama is an IDIOT. my belief I hate his white half too..

And I am curious with the limitation on the amount that a clip can carry will it be applied to older current owned guns. Also what is the deal with all of the empty shelves of ammo.

If the Idiot in charge wants to ban or restrict guns he needs to do so also.

Now for more off topic stuff. WTF is up with the tax increase, I thought he said it wouldn't affect me if I made under 200,000 a year. but it has and his stupid supporters are sitting on the porch collecting a free check and drive a better car than me. and if the government wants to lower the debt stop giving dope heads and breeding machines free money.

What happened to "For the People, By The People". We need to do something to take this country back or it will not be here.

I want My AMERICA back!! where the people said GOD in school and if people got offended they didn't cry and sue. They took it like a grown person and carried on with their day. And when kids got paddled at school and then at home if they got in trouble. This would help with the problems we have with young adults and kids these days. The country is pussified and needs to grow some balls. Also if I wanted to see a guys ass (if i was gay id look at playgirl) So you Idiots please pull your freaking pants up,

Let me first start off by saying I respect your opinion you have on the current president as that is your American right. It seems like you are a little upset and sometimes when people are upset they same things that doesn't make sense or is not logical at all. Please don't take anything I say against you as offensive as I will try to be as civil I can in this discussion but I would like to address a few things. Also let me point out that I am not an avid Obama supporter nor do I like him because he is partially black.

You said and I quote:

WTF is up with the tax increase, I thought he said it wouldn't affect me if I made under 200,000 a year. but it has and his stupid supporters are sitting on the porch collecting a free check and drive a better car than me. and if the government wants to lower the debt stop giving dope heads and breeding machines free money.

I will address a few questions you had in regards to this statement.

1st, you shouldn't be upset with Obama as much as you should be upset with Congress. The reason your taxes went up was because Congress let the payroll tax expire which will now require you to pay 6% more of your paycheck. The last president that was in office ( Bush) enacted this tax cut that would allow more Americans to hold onto more of their income instead of sending it to cover the cost of Social Security. You should take the time and educate yourself on certain things like your taxes before making comments to fully understand them.

As far as your statement "but it has and his stupid supporters are sitting on the porch collecting a free check and drive a better car than me. and if the government wants to lower the debt stop giving dope heads and breeding machines free money" I will comment on this as well.

I hope you understand that mostly all systems there is someone that is going to take advantage. It happens all over, Wallstreet, Government, Gaming,Work it just happens. You can't judge and entire system based upon that people who are taking advantage of that system. Most of the people who are on Welfare or support are not sitting on the porch collecting a free check. Most are hardworking Americans who bussed their ass and have since fell upon hard times but you will only see and hear about the ones who are taking advantage of the system through your media outlet to let you believe that there is more bad than good coming out of this system. I will give you an example to help you further understand this, please keep in mind I do not know what you do nor the type of car you drive.

Example 1: Todd had a degree and was working on Wallstreet to support his wife and 2 kids. Todd did not live beyond his means and drove a nice Lexus which he was able to support being his income was over 100k/year. Todd saved during the time he was working and has a nice amount left in his savings and 401k. Then Todd got fired and had to be let go because of the market, mainly due to his boss who did not run the company as he should and cost hundreds their jobs. Although Todd did the best he could while he was employed he was still let go while his boss who ran the company into the ground not only was able to stay with the company but received Millions of dollars in bonuses.

Todd files for unemployment and now was able to get the max of 370 per week to help support his family until he is able to find work. Still not enough Todd then filed for state assistance and was given a certain amount of foodstamps to help him until he was able to get back onto his feet to again support his family. While on state assistance he was using the money he saved for his 401k and saving to keep the house payment, electric bills, car payment and other things afloat.

So now Todd who is now on state assistance is driving a better car than you, living in a better house than you.

You never know the whole situation so please don't make judgements until you have all the facts. If you want to be upset why don't you get upset at the members of Congress as they have better perks then these so called Obama supporters. I will give you just a few.

1) Congress gives itself a payraise and guess who votes on it? Congress

2) Congress pensions

The pension amount is determined by a formula that takes into account the years served and the average pay for the top three years in terms of payment. In 2002, the average pension payment ranged from $41,000 to $55,000. For example, a member of Congress who worked for 22 years and had a top three-year average salary of $153,900 would be eligible for a pension payment of $84,645 per year

The above was copied from Wikipedia

3)The base salary for a member of Congress is $174,000. But all members enjoy access to a separate piggy bank known as their "allowance." This funding generally goes toward maintaining their offices and building up a legislative entourage. In the House, representatives are allowed to spend more than $900,000 on salaries for up to 18 permanent employees. They get about a quarter-million dollars more for office expenses, including travel, and additional funding for a well-known congressional perk known as "franking." Franking is the term for the mass constituent mail sent out by members of Congress and paid for courtesy of the taxpayer.

Senators enjoy the same privilege but get a much bigger allowance for their office expenses. According to a Congressional Research Service report, the average allocation for fiscal 2010 was more than $3.3 million. Personnel money varies depending on how big of a state a senator represents -- a senator from New York is going to get more than a senator from Montana. But for starters, each senator is given a $500,000 budget to hire up to three legislative assistants.

The above was taken from fox news

If you want to get even further mad you can look into how many of the CEO's of companies that we bailed out that were able to get millions in bonuses and I am sure that all of these Ceo's have better houses, drive better cars and have better salary's than you do.

You make it seem like it's so easy to fix things in Washington, yet I do not see you proposing any laws, trying to get any bills passed, trying to assemble YOUR AMERICA as you claim to do something to take it back. I only see you here in a car audio forum upset over policies and bills in which you have no idea about. Ranting and raving but doing nothing to change. You are just as guilty as those people who are taking advantage of the welfare system you so hate and despise.

You should first get educated on the things you don't like or are upset about instead of blaming a president that WAS elected by the same America that you love. The MAJORITY voted him in not just those welfare sucking money hungry porch sitting fools you claim. THEN and on then after you educate yourself you are able to defend your views since you will have the information to do so.

While I do not like most of what the current president has done I still respect him as OUR president. I respect him because there were many blacks who lost their lives just so myself and others have a chance to vote and have our voice heard. I respect him because that's how I was bought up and raised and if there is something that I do not like or views that I can't stand then I make moves to get this changed instead of sitting here ranting and raving about shit that I have no clue about or what the media has spun up.

My suggestion is not to worry about those that you see who are driving a better car than you, my suggestion is you get off your ass and to the best you can to provide for you and your family. If you are doing that then I respect that and give you congrats. I suggest you educate yourself so you understand why your taxes went up, how congress works and other means of government besides going blindly by what you see from the media.

I agree with most of this. I would respect the President more, if he respected his role as President more. Going on talk shows, posing for magazine covers is quite ridiculous. Being president is not a celebrity position. The other thing that irritates me is his hollow stance of our military. He claims to stand behind it, yet constantly undercuts it. I've personally dealt with some of this undercutting as a veteran. In my time of need when going to school, I was left high and dry due program changes inn-acted by his administration. Benefits I was entitled too, that I put money into. I literally had to talk to my local congressman to get any head way. Shit happens though...

While I do agree what he accomplished is amazing, in that he became president, but I honestly wish it was a different person. I honestly feel people on both sides of the fence are stuck on the Black president thing. I feel to break down these barriers, we need to stop saying things like that... It irritates me to no end when I feel out paperwork for a civilian job, or when I joined the military to see, white, hispanic, black, asian. Only concern should be male or female so they know what kind of clothing to order you. Why can't we all just be people? Guess I'm just ranting now. I just hate the focus we put on color in this country, even if it's not meant in a negative way. It still keeps us segregated...

Kinda like he says. Stop talking about

[maverick]

I'm treating myself with my tax return i'm also 20 years old, living on my own, and paying to put my ass through college. If they're going to give me money that i busted my ass to earn back, then i'll take it gladly.

they arent giving you money. They are repaying you. you loaned them that money over the course of the year. interest free.

i'm well aware that would be the case if i actually paid IN taxes during the year, but due to tax breaks they give if you pay your own schooling, and me paying in $6000 of my own money for school i'm entitled to a refund of some of it

[n8ball2013]

See that's another thing. Not necessarily you but I know people who pay in next to nothing. They then get back 15 grand or something crazy. Not sure how you can get back more than you pay in. Its bullshit

[maverick]

See that's another thing. Not necessarily you but I know people who pay in next to nothing. They then get back 15 grand or something crazy. Not sure how you can get back more than you pay in. Its bullshit

i understand that as well, but living on my own and paying almost 30% of my income in school fees, tuition and books, allowed me to earn a return without paying in, which honestly baffled me but it's the only reason i didn't have taxes taken out of my check this year

[Ninja_v1.0]

obama is an IDIOT. my belief I hate his white half too..

And I am curious with the limitation on the amount that a clip can carry will it be applied to older current owned guns. Also what is the deal with all of the empty shelves of ammo.

If the Idiot in charge wants to ban or restrict guns he needs to do so also.

Now for more off topic stuff. WTF is up with the tax increase, I thought he said it wouldn't affect me if I made under 200,000 a year. but it has and his stupid supporters are sitting on the porch collecting a free check and drive a better car than me. and if the government wants to lower the debt stop giving dope heads and breeding machines free money.

What happened to "For the People, By The People". We need to do something to take this country back or it will not be here.

I want My AMERICA back!! where the people said GOD in school and if people got offended they didn't cry and sue. They took it like a grown person and carried on with their day. And when kids got paddled at school and then at home if they got in trouble. This would help with the problems we have with young adults and kids these days. The country is pussified and needs to grow some balls. Also if I wanted to see a guys ass (if i was gay id look at playgirl) So you Idiots please pull your freaking pants up,

Let me first start off by saying I respect your opinion you have on the current president as that is your American right. It seems like you are a little upset and sometimes when people are upset they same things that doesn't make sense or is not logical at all. Please don't take anything I say against you as offensive as I will try to be as civil I can in this discussion but I would like to address a few things. Also let me point out that I am not an avid Obama supporter nor do I like him because he is partially black.

You said and I quote:

WTF is up with the tax increase, I thought he said it wouldn't affect me if I made under 200,000 a year. but it has and his stupid supporters are sitting on the porch collecting a free check and drive a better car than me. and if the government wants to lower the debt stop giving dope heads and breeding machines free money.

I will address a few questions you had in regards to this statement.

1st, you shouldn't be upset with Obama as much as you should be upset with Congress. The reason your taxes went up was because Congress let the payroll tax expire which will now require you to pay 6% more of your paycheck. The last president that was in office ( Bush) enacted this tax cut that would allow more Americans to hold onto more of their income instead of sending it to cover the cost of Social Security. You should take the time and educate yourself on certain things like your taxes before making comments to fully understand them.

As far as your statement "but it has and his stupid supporters are sitting on the porch collecting a free check and drive a better car than me. and if the government wants to lower the debt stop giving dope heads and breeding machines free money" I will comment on this as well.

I hope you understand that mostly all systems there is someone that is going to take advantage. It happens all over, Wallstreet, Government, Gaming,Work it just happens. You can't judge and entire system based upon that people who are taking advantage of that system. Most of the people who are on Welfare or support are not sitting on the porch collecting a free check. Most are hardworking Americans who bussed their ass and have since fell upon hard times but you will only see and hear about the ones who are taking advantage of the system through your media outlet to let you believe that there is more bad than good coming out of this system. I will give you an example to help you further understand this, please keep in mind I do not know what you do nor the type of car you drive.

Example 1: Todd had a degree and was working on Wallstreet to support his wife and 2 kids. Todd did not live beyond his means and drove a nice Lexus which he was able to support being his income was over 100k/year. Todd saved during the time he was working and has a nice amount left in his savings and 401k. Then Todd got fired and had to be let go because of the market, mainly due to his boss who did not run the company as he should and cost hundreds their jobs. Although Todd did the best he could while he was employed he was still let go while his boss who ran the company into the ground not only was able to stay with the company but received Millions of dollars in bonuses.

Todd files for unemployment and now was able to get the max of 370 per week to help support his family until he is able to find work. Still not enough Todd then filed for state assistance and was given a certain amount of foodstamps to help him until he was able to get back onto his feet to again support his family. While on state assistance he was using the money he saved for his 401k and saving to keep the house payment, electric bills, car payment and other things afloat.

So now Todd who is now on state assistance is driving a better car than you, living in a better house than you.

You never know the whole situation so please don't make judgements until you have all the facts. If you want to be upset why don't you get upset at the members of Congress as they have better perks then these so called Obama supporters. I will give you just a few.

1) Congress gives itself a payraise and guess who votes on it? Congress

2) Congress pensions

The pension amount is determined by a formula that takes into account the years served and the average pay for the top three years in terms of payment. In 2002, the average pension payment ranged from $41,000 to $55,000. For example, a member of Congress who worked for 22 years and had a top three-year average salary of $153,900 would be eligible for a pension payment of $84,645 per year

The above was copied from Wikipedia

3)The base salary for a member of Congress is $174,000. But all members enjoy access to a separate piggy bank known as their "allowance." This funding generally goes toward maintaining their offices and building up a legislative entourage. In the House, representatives are allowed to spend more than $900,000 on salaries for up to 18 permanent employees. They get about a quarter-million dollars more for office expenses, including travel, and additional funding for a well-known congressional perk known as "franking." Franking is the term for the mass constituent mail sent out by members of Congress and paid for courtesy of the taxpayer.

Senators enjoy the same privilege but get a much bigger allowance for their office expenses. According to a Congressional Research Service report, the average allocation for fiscal 2010 was more than $3.3 million. Personnel money varies depending on how big of a state a senator represents -- a senator from New York is going to get more than a senator from Montana. But for starters, each senator is given a $500,000 budget to hire up to three legislative assistants.

The above was taken from fox news

If you want to get even further mad you can look into how many of the CEO's of companies that we bailed out that were able to get millions in bonuses and I am sure that all of these Ceo's have better houses, drive better cars and have better salary's than you do.

You make it seem like it's so easy to fix things in Washington, yet I do not see you proposing any laws, trying to get any bills passed, trying to assemble YOUR AMERICA as you claim to do something to take it back. I only see you here in a car audio forum upset over policies and bills in which you have no idea about. Ranting and raving but doing nothing to change. You are just as guilty as those people who are taking advantage of the welfare system you so hate and despise.

You should first get educated on the things you don't like or are upset about instead of blaming a president that WAS elected by the same America that you love. The MAJORITY voted him in not just those welfare sucking money hungry porch sitting fools you claim. THEN and on then after you educate yourself you are able to defend your views since you will have the information to do so.

While I do not like most of what the current president has done I still respect him as OUR president. I respect him because there were many blacks who lost their lives just so myself and others have a chance to vote and have our voice heard. I respect him because that's how I was bought up and raised and if there is something that I do not like or views that I can't stand then I make moves to get this changed instead of sitting here ranting and raving about shit that I have no clue about or what the media has spun up.

My suggestion is not to worry about those that you see who are driving a better car than you, my suggestion is you get off your ass and to the best you can to provide for you and your family. If you are doing that then I respect that and give you congrats. I suggest you educate yourself so you understand why your taxes went up, how congress works and other means of government besides going blindly by what you see from the media.

I agree with most of this. I would respect the President more, if he respected his role as President more. Going on talk shows, posing for magazine covers is quite ridiculous. Being president is not a celebrity position. The other thing that irritates me is his hollow stance of our military. He claims to stand behind it, yet constantly undercuts it. I've personally dealt with some of this undercutting as a veteran. In my time of need when going to school, I was left high and dry due program changes inn-acted by his administration. Benefits I was entitled too, that I put money into. I literally had to talk to my local congressman to get any head way. Shit happens though...

While I do agree what he accomplished is amazing, in that he became president, but I honestly wish it was a different person. I honestly feel people on both sides of the fence are stuck on the Black president thing. I feel to break down these barriers, we need to stop saying things like that... It irritates me to no end when I feel out paperwork for a civilian job, or when I joined the military to see, white, hispanic, black, asian. Only concern should be male or female so they know what kind of clothing to order you. Why can't we all just be people? Guess I'm just ranting now. I just hate the focus we put on color in this country, even if it's not meant in a negative way. It still keeps us segregated...

Kinda like he says. Stop talking about

Kyle,

I must say first and for most thank you for your service. Putting your life on the line for my family, friends and myself. I agree with most of what you said but would like to comment on just a few things as well.

You stated "I would respect the President more, if he respected his role as President more. Going on talk shows, posing for magazine covers is quite ridiculous"

Well contrary to belief since 1993 the last 3 presidents from Obama to the first Bush where doing talk shows and on magazine covers. I agree with your statement that the president is not a celebrity position, but I'm sure as you know that this day and age has changed. The last presidents have done it and I am pretty sure the future presidents will be doing the same thing.

I can not say much about the military as I have never been in the military nor do I know what goes on as the military does not accept ninjas for combat. Something about liability even though for the most part we are unable to be seen. But on a more serious note as a veteran I do know that Obama did increase the budget for veterans. From 53 BILLION in 2010 to about 59 BILLION in 2012 and he has received 7 promise kept praises from PolitiFact on things he has done for veterans.

I am glad you were able to get you stuff situated and instead of bitching about what didn't happen, you actually went and did something about it by talking to your local congressman to get headway.

I also agree with you on the ending about race.

[Kyblack76]

See that's another thing. Not necessarily you but I know people who pay in next to nothing. They then get back 15 grand or something crazy. Not sure how you can get back more than you pay in. Its bullshit