Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Team bassick alpine on the forum also switched and had no change in his score. Maybe he'll chime in with exactly what he was using for equipment

Do you think that is because in each case, both the OFC and CCA were sufficient to allow the amps to run at full potential, meaning that whatever the weak link in each individual system was, it wasn't the wire?

Just an idea, I can't say I KNOW this to be true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Team bassick alpine on the forum also switched and had no change in his score. Maybe he'll chime in with exactly what he was using for equipment

Do you think that is because in each case, both the OFC and CCA were sufficient to allow the amps to run at full potential, meaning that whatever the weak link in each individual system was, it wasn't the wire?

Just an idea, I can't say I KNOW this to be true.

That is my theory. That extra runs balances out the fact that copper is a better conductor, and if you wire properly with calculated draw you won't suffer from using a less conductive material. Every case is going to be different though so if people pay attention to that, no worries

Tell me...does this smell like chloroform to you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's just say that you had access to two engines. One engine made 400hp and one made 500hp. The 500hp engine costs more money.

There would be no point at which one could say that the 400hp engine was superior to the 500hp engine, assuming horsepower was the only metric. However, one can rationalize why the 400hp engine is a better value but that still won't make it a 500hp engine.

How does that apply to this argument?

Completely off Topic for the wire, but for engine.. say it made 400 and 500 hp bone stock. The 400 hp motor, dyno tune, headers, cam, exhaust, cold air intake, gears, certain fluids.. could make the 400 hp motor more powerful for less or same price then the 500 hp motor

idea22.jpg ALL CREDIT TO XX1 FOR DC BANNER 3178gvp.jpg

down rpping vanderbilt. 30 miles from victoria. i own the 3rd loudest setup here out of 3. but i did put together all 3 setups

strapping 2 amps together ? like bolting them next together? using bungy cables to hold them down? or wiring separate amps to each sub

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's just say that you had access to two engines. One engine made 400hp and one made 500hp. The 500hp engine costs more money.

There would be no point at which one could say that the 400hp engine was superior to the 500hp engine, assuming horsepower was the only metric. However, one can rationalize why the 400hp engine is a better value but that still won't make it a 500hp engine.

How does that apply to this argument?

Completely off Topic for the wire, but for engine.. say it made 400 and 500 hp bone stock. The 400 hp motor, dyno tune, headers, cam, exhaust, cold air intake, gears, certain fluids.. could make the 400 hp motor more powerful for less or same price then the 500 hp motor

so will the 500hp engine..

what would help more for his post would be the quality of internal.. lets forget about power adders and say the 500hp has forged internals and the 400hp has stock cast steel internals. the forged crank, forged pistons, forged rods and arp bolts on the 500hp can take 900hp at 6900 rpm and the 400hp engine with cast crank and cheap pistons rods and bolts can only handle 600hp at 5500 rpm. now add your power adders plus a 150 shot of nitrous which engine will benefit the most and which will last longer??

  • Like (+1 Rep) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is better than the AMD vs Intel proc wars of the late 90's. my 3dnow is better than your floating point :)

  • Like (+1 Rep) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Audio manufacturers around the globe are waging an unseen battle. Most people have no idea that the war is going on, much less who is winning. You see, a significant percentage of the cost of the electronics and loudspeakers we enjoy and, in particular the wiring that interconnects them, is linked to the price of copper.

Since 2004, the price of raw copper has more than doubled and manufacturers have been fighting to keep the cost of products low, as one must do in a highly competitive marketplace. Although the price of raw copper has a direct affect on amplifiers (PCBs have copper traces and copper windings in transformers) and loudspeakers (most voice coils are copper), no category of car audio has been as directly affected as cable and wire. You may have noticed that a quality "amp kit" that used to sell for $49.95 a few years ago is now $99.95 or more. This increase is directly attributable to the amount of copper in those products and the rising cost of the raw material.

copper_wire_vs_copper_clad_aluminum_wire

In an effort to reduce "sticker shock" for those shopping for amp kits, several companies began producing a different kind of wire as a more cost-conscious alternative. The new wire isn't really new; it was used occasionally in past automotive applications. But high prices make for innovation and now we have "Copper-Clad Aluminum" (CCA) wire that costs about half the price of pure copper cables. While this can be a great alternative to expensive copper, it can also lead to problems if misapplied and its limitations aren't fully understood. Here is how to find out if it's right for your system.

Description

CCA wire is an aluminum wire or many strands of aluminum wire coated with a very thin layer of copper. In practice, the "copper-clad" part of the nomenclature is mainly there to assuage potential buyers' doubts, as the amount of copper used is inconsequential to the actual performance.

The construction and gauge sizes of CCA wire are the same as copper wire. The strand size and count can differ just like various qualities of copper wire, as will the flexibility of the conductor. The insulating material is the same PVC or silicone-based material found on copper wire.

The big difference between pure copper wire and CCA wire is resistance. If you look up the conductivity of common metals used as electrical conductors, some facts might surprise you.

The best metal for conducting electricity isn't gold, as many believe. The absolute best conductor is pure silver. The second best is copper, with a very good conductivity at 97.6 percent that of silver. This is the main reason that copper has been the most popular material for an electrical conductor—it's a fraction of the cost of silver with almost equal performance. Gold ranks third, with 76.6 percent the performance rating of silver (the real benefit to gold is its ability to resist corrosion and oxidization). Aluminum, however, is a distant fourth at the 63 percent mark, or about two-thirds the conductivity of copper. Stated another way, and when we include the tiny bit of copper applied, CCA cable has about 34 percent greater resistance than a pure copper cable of the same gauge and construction. Let's take a look at what that additional resistance can mean in the real world or car audio.

If you're reading CA&E, you probably already know that resistance in a conductor causes a loss of power in that conductor, in terms of voltage and/or current. It also can become a source of heat if the resistance and amount of power delivered are high enough.

A quick Ohm's law refresher reminds us that E*I = P or, for those not familiar with the symbols, voltage multiplied by current equals power. So if we want to maximize the ability of our amplifier to make power, we need to maximize the voltage and current that supplies it. Any amount of resistance in the conductor delivering that voltage and current becomes a limiting factor to maximum power delivery.

It's not essential to go into the mathematics here. The point is that for optimum performance with a given supply voltage and a known current delivery requirement, we can calculate how much resistance in the conducting cable is acceptable. Since most of us have been taught the general rule of thumb for selecting wire gauge in systems of various power levels using pure copper cables, it's very important to rethink those requirements when using a less effective conductor, like the CCA cable. While some of you already have your mental light bulb coming on, for those of you new to CCA cable, I provided some additional data to explain what goes on from a technical perspective.

Lab Measurements

As we discussed earlier, additional resistance will increase the heating in the conductor and decrease the amount of power delivered. Let's look at safety first and examine the heat developed in the cables.

Why is the heating important? In most vehicles a portion of this conductor must "live" in the vehicle's engine compartment. Vehicle underhood temperatures here in Arizona often exceed 180F. The insulating jacket on most cables is only rated at 105C, or about 221F. That doesn't leave much of a safety margin for internally developed heat and, in extreme cases, can lead to softened or even melted insulation on the conductor.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here at Cogent Audio Labs, we're fortunate enough to have a special camera that allows us to photograph heat. In the accompanying photos (see below) you'll see radiometric images of three different cables, all sold as 4-gauge and measured under identical test conditions.

heat_test.jpg

A pure copper cable and a CCA cable were measured and proved to be "full-spec" 4-gauge as determined by the American Wire Gauge chart. The second pure copper cable is sold as 4-gauge but is about 10 percent under spec in strand count and diameter. It's also less expensive than the full-spec copper, so that may be an indication for the buyer to pay attention.

Each cable was exactly 20' in length and the heating test involved passing 100A of current through it for a 30-minute duration. This is a severe condition but not impossible to duplicate in large systems. The ambient temperature and the start temp of each cable was 76F (see measurements below).

wire_spec.jpg

Conclusion

At this point you might be thinking that CCA wire is bad and shouldn't be used, but that's not the case. We've done extensive testing on CCA wire for several manufacturers and our results show that it can work very well for all but the highest current applications. Because of the additional resistance you simply can't substitute the same gauge CCA wire for the traditional gauge copper wire. Our strong recommendation would be to simply use one gauge larger size of the CCA cable than the copper cable.

That being said, if you compensate for the increased resistance in the CCA cable by going to the next larger gauge size, you'll probably end up with equal or maybe even less resistance than the smaller gauge pure copper. But along with an increase in cable size comes an increase in price. This could mean little difference in bottom line prices between comparable copper and a +1-gauge in CCA, so be aware of what you're buying. —Garry Springgay

Garry Springgay is the owner of Cogent Audio Labs, and a former contributing tech editor for Car Audio and Electronics magazine.

http://caraudiomag.com/articles/copper-wire-vs-copper-clad-aluminum-wire-wire-warnings

  • Like (+1 Rep) 1
I don't put images in my signature to let people know I mean business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good start on the basics :good:

Couldn't wait to jump into the OFC/CCA debate I see. ;)

Unless I missed it, how often with the vids come out?

This post sent with 100% recycled electrons.
2004 BMW M3
Mechman 280A
2 - XS Power XP3000

1 - XS Power D375

500F of Maxwell SuperCaps (soon to be 1000F)
iPadMini2

Dash mounted O-scope
Audison bitOne (Remote DRC MP)
Highs Amp - PPI Art A404
Hertz HSK130 (HSK165 waiting...)
DC Audio DC9.0K
2- DC Audio XL12m2

LEGAL             - 147.3dB @ 41Hz
OUTLAW         - 150.2dB @ 45Hz

OUTLAW         - 145.7dB @ 30Hz
JUNE 2014 SOTM WINNER

2014 COLORADO PEOPLE'S CHOICE WINNER

SOTM BUILD:
http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/141656-wicks-e46-m3-build-bass-turbo-button-and-a-big-new-addition/page-68#entry2802026

sig-sized6_zps0265e669.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 202 Guests (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
×
×
  • Create New...