Upgrades for 8000 watts

[Kyblack76]

Well, sounds like you need to add a second run front to back if your lower in the rear. That said, if you think 1.6 volts is going to net you the other 4k you think you have, not gonna happen. 

[liteblue]

Ky, I absolutely want to do a second run from front battery to rear. During tests the system was pulling over 200 amps on the one run. Which is totally cool for now but if I want to get to 8000 watts I will need more. My thinking is if I am going to see 200+ amps from the alternator and 200+ amps from the battery two runs of 1/0 would be better.

 

1point, definitely need more battery power. I am saving up for more batteries. Redesigning my box and trunk plans to accommodate more space. Originally I wanted to put batteries in the spare tire well, but there is not enough room. something like 100 AH of small batteries and they would cost way more than one battery of same if not more capacity. As for lithium I do not think I am ready. I do not understand enough. Will i need an external regulator for my alternator? I live in Chicago where it gets hot af and cold af, will they need some loud fans? And its my daily driver, is lithium more dangerous in event of an accident?

SO I took some measurements. Then did testing based on those measurements.

 

What I found out is that I should have just listened to the volt meter. There is voltage drop across the amplifier even with no input signal present. Reading numbers off of and understanding the multi-meter are two very separate animals. What causes voltage drop? Some sort of electrical load, or resistance. When the amplifier was turned off, all the batteries voltage read the same. I think the amp is hurt =/

Hooked up the oscope and found a funky wave, over 20khz, being sent out the speaker terminals even with no signal present. It is definitely a cheap-ish scope and I am no EE or amplifier technician  or anything like that but I do not believe that is supposed to happen?

 

Oddly enough it did not make any audible noise out the subwoofer like the Skar amp. Maybe because of the relatively high frequency? Maybe full bridge amps are just better protected from noise?

 

Either way, reached out to Sundown for an RMA and it is out now. Maybe they will give me some insight as to what happened inside the amp?

 

In the mean time I will install the skv2 maybe it will not be as noisy as I remember.......

 

[Fish Chris]

IMPO, either one of those batteries "by itself" is enough for 8000 wts... heck, 18,000 wts. All batteries do is "store power". Are you planning to sit and play your system with the vehicle off ? Then yea, you would need more storage. Maybe a lot more. Otherwise, don't try to store power, just make enough of it to begin with ! For an 8Kwt system, I'd be running two 350 amp alts (or greater) one decent battery (but since you already have two) and a strong supercap bank, and call it a day

 

I'm sorry, I forgot to ask what vehicle... Might not work in a Smartcar  lol

[Jessica]

Are you running ofc or cca for your 1/0 currently?

[liteblue]

On 1/20/2021 at 12:25 PM, Fish Chris said:

All batteries do is "store power". Are you planning to sit and play your system with the vehicle off ? Then yea, you would need more storage. Maybe a lot more. Otherwise, don't try to store power, just make enough of it to begin with ! For an 8Kwt system, I'd be running two 350 amp alts (or greater) one decent battery (but since you already have two) and a strong supercap bank, and call it a day

 

I'm sorry, I forgot to ask what vehicle... Might not work in a Smartcar  lol

 

No I don't plan to play with the car off at all but I was having issues with only 2 batteries! Lights dimming and dead batteries after my short work commute.

 

700 amps of potential is a dream. My options for alternator are limited. Small case gm alternator or a/c delete. I'm seriously considering the a/c delete because windy subs = air conditioning right?

 

I am interested in a supercap bank! But seeing how I'm struggling with voltage would batteries be a better buy?

 

Vehicle is 2014 Chevy Cruze 1.8L with a Singer 220 amp alternator, and 184 Ah of xs power D Series batteries.

 

7 hours ago, strangeduck said:

Are you running ofc or cca for your 1/0 currently?

All OFC Tinned 1/0 wire from three brands: kicker, nvx and down4sound. Tinned copper lugs from batterycablesusa .com, kicker and nvx.

 

The nvx is my favorite so far and I'm planning to buy skyhigh for my next rolls. I really like the lugs from battery cables aswell. 1 dollar each. But I am willing to try out the skyhigh lugs. Atleast they come with heat shrink when you buy 10?

 

[sICSoundz]

These amps do not ride along ground, there is no negative rail voltage, it rides along half voltage, swings up to top of rail and then swings down to ground then back to half voltage. So the speaker terminals will have voltage always on them and "noise". You will benefit more from a cap bank as the caps will absorb, store and distribute 15v or what ever your alternator is charging at. They also clean up any floor noise and also take a little of the shock off batteries and alternator. You would benefit greatly going with Lithium, I would look into headway if I were you seeing as you have a few AGMs now, You can actually run LifePo4(most popular used of that chemistry is headway 8ah "red" cells) with your AGMs. i run headway, agm and have a 566F cap bank. Make sure you do not stave that amp, They are no more efficient than half bridge and are power hungry as well.

[1point21gigawatts]

A bank of caps isn’t gonna help you. You need more reserve, not quicker charge and discharge, caps don’t offer reserve, just quicker charge and discharge rate, which helps voltage. But if you don’t have the reserve to feed that hungry ass amp then that amp won’t eat and won’t put out what it’s suppose to. Point blank. Stop trying to find answers and spend hours reading what you find on Google search and watching videos when you were told the answer to save you from doing that needless searching. That’s crazy dude. And your voltage is probably lower in the rear because your rear battery isn’t grounded good enough, thus not getting charged well like the front. I’ve seen this before. But like dude said about doubling up on runs, that would be optimal and help stabilize voltage better even if that one run is sufficient in handling the current flow fully and it would charge that battery better too. But if you battery isn’t grounded good enough, then that battery wouldn’t charge well if you had multiple positive battery feeds. If you back battery is feeding off it’s positive post, let’s say 2 runs of 1/0 ofc and one run of 4 gauge ofc off of one run of 1/0 ofc from the front battery, you would need at least 2 1/0 ofc grounds on that rear battery. If there is more than a single 1/0 ofc wire coming off that rear battery’s positive post, even another 4 gauge or 8 gauge wire, then a single 1/0 of battery ground wouldn’t be sufficient. Your amp is drawing a good amount of current to just be an 8000 rms amp and I’m sure you have another amp to play your speakers. And you are capping current draw, this is certain, so you are maxing out the current draw, and pulling hard from them batteries. They better be grounded well.

[1point21gigawatts]

On 1/20/2021 at 1:25 PM, Fish Chris said:

IMPO, either one of those batteries "by itself" is enough for 8000 wts... heck, 18,000 wts. All batteries do is "store power". Are you planning to sit and play your system with the vehicle off ? Then yea, you would need more storage. Maybe a lot more. Otherwise, don't try to store power, just make enough of it to begin with ! For an 8Kwt system, I'd be running two 350 amp alts (or greater) one decent battery (but since you already have two) and a strong supercap bank, and call it a day

 

I'm sorry, I forgot to ask what vehicle... Might not work in a Smartcar  lol

Hell no. But other than me saying that. What’s up buddy  ? Haven’t seen you on the forum in a while. Glad you are back on. But for real, that dude 100% needs more reserve and probably needs better grounding too.

[liteblue]

11 hours ago, 1point21gigawatts said:

Your voltage is probably lower in the rear because your rear battery isn’t grounded good enough, thus not getting charged well like the front. I’ve seen this before. But like dude said about doubling up on runs, that would be optimal and help stabilize voltage better even if that one run is sufficient in handling the current flow fully and it would charge that battery better too. But if you battery isn’t grounded good enough, then that battery wouldn’t charge well if you had multiple positive battery feeds. If you back battery is feeding off it’s positive post, let’s say 2 runs of 1/0 ofc and one run of 4 gauge ofc off of one run of 1/0 ofc from the front battery, you would need at least 2 1/0 ofc grounds on that rear battery. If there is more than a single 1/0 ofc wire coming off that rear battery’s positive post, even another 4 gauge or 8 gauge wire, then a single 1/0 of battery ground wouldn’t be sufficient. Your amp is drawing a good amount of current to just be an 8000 rms amp and I’m sure you have another amp to play your speakers. And you are capping current draw, this is certain, so you are maxing out the current draw, and pulling hard from them batteries. They better be grounded well.

Back batteries are connected directly to front battery with 1/0 ofc tinned for +12v and Ground. Then I have a new chassis ground in the rear  with 1/0 the not frame rail but a big hunk of metal that looks like a frame rail. New 1/0 ground under the hood in additon to factory 4 guage. I used the "pozitive ground kit" that the guys at 5star recommend. 

 

I do need better alternator to battery ground. The one I had was attached at the cylinder head next to a cam sensor. Bad Idea. Hella issues starting the car so that's gone now.

 

I absolutely was draining the rear batteries harder the the front but to have over half a volt drop just because the amplifier is powered on seems bad. After charging batteries, with a battery charger, voltage plummets after not even 30 seconds of bass music, and did not stabilize until I powered off the bass amp. That was with it tuned down, ~4000 volt watt rms, not full tilt. 

 

It's out for rma hopefully Sundown does not send it back, say it's good and call me a dumbass. 

 

[1point21gigawatts]

Just because your amp is connected to that back battery directly doesn’t mean that’s the culprit. You have to remember, that battery and alternator setup is in circuit together. If one thing isn’t up to par, it would affect the whole circuit and then cause quicker drain of that inferior factor and after awhile it would drain and affect the other factors in that circuit. It should be working together and now you have a poorly grounded battery working against that vehicles electrical circuit. That one 1/0 gauge ground isn’t enough to ground that rear battery that you are pulling hard from with 4 runs of positive feed 1/0 to your subwoofer amp. There is suppose to be a slight difference in voltage on what the amp sees, what the rear battery sees and what the front battery sees because of the placements in that circuit. But when there isn’t no current pull then the batteries should rest and charge the same. Even though you aren’t pulling the maximum amount of current that amp can draw, you are none the less, pulling more current than one 1/0 gauge can support, so when it comes to positive output and draw, it needs a ground strong enough to support it and handle it. That one wire isn’t enough. You don’t have that battery grounded good enough, which is holding your draw and output back and minimizing the correct charge and maintaining that battery needs to function correctly. It can’t support that circuit with that weak ass ground. Double up on that battery’s ground and that back battery would be good and equal to the rest of that circuit and the rest of the circuit would be stronger and support more current. You are holding that rear battery back, which is capping your circuit. Come on dude, I told you what it was when I posted. I didn’t even look at the positive runs coming off that battery until this post and now I know 100% you need to add a 1/0 gauge ofc ground to that battery. You could have them amp grounds grounded off that battery too. You have 4 posited feeds and could have 4 negative feeds to that amp and only one 1/0 feed coming from your alternator to your front battery and then to your back battery and then 4 positive runs coming off that battery, which has one 1/0 ground, and possibly 4 negative feeds coming off that rear battery too grounding your amp. Either way, this  is what you need to do, before you get an alternator, double up on every positive 1/0 run in your car audio circuit and double up on every 1/0 ground on your car audio circuit. And don’t cut corners and think it’s possible to cut corners in car audio and do well. And you don’t have to order grounding kits. Just order the total length of 1/0 gauge ofc wiring you need from knukonceptz and order some 1/0 gauge ring terminals. Order two sizes, just in case, 5/16” ring terminals and 3/8” ring terminals and order a hammer crimper if you don’t wanna buy a hydraulic crimper and fix your current problem. If you see a 1/0 wire in your vehicle, even if it has another smaller gauge wire doubled with it, add another 1/0 run to it. Period. No exceptions. And remember, there is no such thing as cutting corners in car audio if you want a good setup. Much love and bass on. Oh yeah, that ground in that second picture needs to be moved. That’s not a good grounding location.