alaskanzx5 Posted August 12, 2014 Report Posted August 12, 2014 The reason why sq is subjective is because not everyone likes or enjoys different sounds. That and some might be able to pick up on missing freq where others can't. The human ear I'd just that human. It will male mistakes and cause the quality of a system seem better or worse then it I just based o that one persons perspective. t1500bdcp 2 t2d4 15" 1 t600.4 1 t400.2 1 set p1 tweets singer alt, tons of wiring, smd vm-1, 80prs, back seat delete, still in the works, aiming for a 145-147 with the ability to play 25hz up to 50hz.
Krakin Posted August 12, 2014 Report Posted August 12, 2014 Replicating the music in the most accurate way is not subjective. If you record a guitar and then want to play it back to where you can't tell the difference between someone in front of you and two sets of speakers you are on the right track. If you record it and then want to mess with the frequency response to make it sound different, but "better" you have no longer gone down the route of replication and are back into subjectivism. There have been many studies, double blind tests, ect.. on amplifier quality done on things ranging from comparing $20 DACs to $5000 DACs to where no one could tell the difference, studies done by TAG-McLaren Audio with completely different amplifier typologies where, you guessed it, no one knew which was which. Even studies on cable quality done my McIntosh where they took some super high end cable and compared it to a clothes hanger. No difference. I am willing to admit that there are some D-Class amplifiers are better than I had thought at the beginning of this post, but one thing will not change is that you cannot have subjective means dismiss objective measurements in amplifier quality. This also means that just because an amplifier is $2000 doesn't mean it is going to take the cake. Also a lot of when people don't like listening to well put together sound quality setups is a lot to do with the quality of the input sound. This is a great video that was posted by Triticum on FaceBook that talks about the distortion in the audio recording, that I highly recommend watching. Krakin's Home Dipole Project http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/186153-krakins-dipole-project-new-reciever-in-rockford-science/#entry2772370 Krakin, are you some sort of mad scientist? I would have replied earlier, but I was measuring the output of my amp with a yardstick . . . What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the two streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums An acoustic event has dimensions of Time, Tone, Loudness and Space Everyone learns to render the 3-dimensional localization of sound based on the individual shape of their ears, thus no formula can achieve a definite effect for every listener.
hispls Posted August 12, 2014 Report Posted August 12, 2014 I am willing to admit that there are some D-Class amplifiers are better than I had thought at the beginning of this post, but one thing will not change is that you cannot have subjective means dismiss objective measurements in amplifier quality. This also means that just because an amplifier is $2000 doesn't mean it is going to take the cake. I defy you to produce any objective measurements showing any deficiencies in the ability of the high quality, modern, class D amplifiers to accurately amplify a signal. Consider for example the new Zed amps (I replaced my last gen with the full range class D and haven't looked back) in which even the long beloved Burr Brown op-amp has now become obsolete! At this point R&D budgets and any improvement in overall amplifier performance is being focused on full range class D. Class B amplifiers will go the way of the dodo bird in most of our lifetimes. If your only hangup is that it's not a pure analog signal you should back up and consider even if you're using a turntable and tubes at home to enjoy your "pure" sound, the recording studio who records and mixes that album (assuming it's not 20+ years old) is working with ones and zeros. This shit isn't maple syrup where grade A is better than grade B. If it sounds good it is good, and if you can't show me observable measurements showing any deficiency you might as well be trying to prove N-rays.
Karkov Posted August 12, 2014 Report Posted August 12, 2014 Good read. 2007 Chevy Tahoe (SOLD) 12 ~ FI Audio X series 10" w/BP option 2 ~ DC Audio 5.0K @0.67 3 ~ DC Audio 5.0K @1.0 2 ~ PPI 3 way sets (not installed yet) 1 ~ RF T400-4, 1 ~ RF T600-2, 1 ~ RF T600-4 4 ~ CT Sounds 5.25" Strato comps (rear fill only) 1 ~ XS Power D4800 1 ~ XS Power D3400 8 ~ XS Power XP3000 160 stock alt, Mechman 370 Elite, 185 DC Power 320+ Sq. Ft. Sound Deadener Pioneer AVH-X5500BHS Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/knfjdkghjudfhsgkjdhf/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=0
Krakin Posted August 12, 2014 Report Posted August 12, 2014 I defy you to produce any objective measurements showing any deficiencies in the ability of the high quality, modern, class D amplifiers to accurately amplify a signal. Consider for example the new Zed amps (I replaced my last gen with the full range class D and haven't looked back) in which even the long beloved Burr Brown op-amp has now become obsolete! At this point R&D budgets and any improvement in overall amplifier performance is being focused on full range class D. Class B amplifiers will go the way of the dodo bird in most of our lifetimes. If your only hangup is that it's not a pure analog signal you should back up and consider even if you're using a turntable and tubes at home to enjoy your "pure" sound, the recording studio who records and mixes that album (assuming it's not 20+ years old) is working with ones and zeros. This shit isn't maple syrup where grade A is better than grade B. If it sounds good it is good, and if you can't show me observable measurements showing any deficiency you might as well be trying to prove N-rays. That was the point of my post? If you haven't noticed I have slightly changed my attitude towards D-Class. I was disagreeing with subjective ideals holding importance over objectivity. Krakin's Home Dipole Project http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/186153-krakins-dipole-project-new-reciever-in-rockford-science/#entry2772370 Krakin, are you some sort of mad scientist? I would have replied earlier, but I was measuring the output of my amp with a yardstick . . . What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the two streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums An acoustic event has dimensions of Time, Tone, Loudness and Space Everyone learns to render the 3-dimensional localization of sound based on the individual shape of their ears, thus no formula can achieve a definite effect for every listener.
alaskanzx5 Posted August 12, 2014 Report Posted August 12, 2014 I agree with you krakin, sq is suppose to be about reproducing the music the way the artist/studio wants it to be heard. A true sq system should just about have a flat response or as close to flat as you can get it. However as long as the human ear is the testing device the competition will not be equal. A testing device like the RTA would have to be used to accurately measure freq response. t1500bdcp 2 t2d4 15" 1 t600.4 1 t400.2 1 set p1 tweets singer alt, tons of wiring, smd vm-1, 80prs, back seat delete, still in the works, aiming for a 145-147 with the ability to play 25hz up to 50hz.
Krakin Posted August 12, 2014 Report Posted August 12, 2014 I agree with you krakin, sq is suppose to be about reproducing the music the way the artist/studio wants it to be heard. A true sq system should just about have a flat response or as close to flat as you can get it. However as long as the human ear is the testing device the competition will not be equal. A testing device like the RTA would have to be used to accurately measure freq response. That is true as well, there are many things our ears do though that HELP us hear better. Such as even if hear a noise from another location, if it is the same frequency or set of frequencies and under 30-50 ms our brain will lump it together with the direct sound. Read up on this page some info about our ears. http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/EARS.htm Krakin's Home Dipole Project http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/186153-krakins-dipole-project-new-reciever-in-rockford-science/#entry2772370 Krakin, are you some sort of mad scientist? I would have replied earlier, but I was measuring the output of my amp with a yardstick . . . What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention in the two streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums An acoustic event has dimensions of Time, Tone, Loudness and Space Everyone learns to render the 3-dimensional localization of sound based on the individual shape of their ears, thus no formula can achieve a definite effect for every listener.
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