Bigsix

^^ I believe that is footage from his shoot out earlier in the day with the Fish and Game guys isnt it? Also heard somewhere that this shootout ( with Fish and Game and other personnel) actually lasted over 15 minutes.

Silly Hunter... an aircraft prepped for flight...thats just completely unbelievable... it was a time machine.

From what I heard last night when the cabin owners son called into CNN, those cabins were searched two days prior by LEO. so most likely the only weapons Dorner had were what he was able to carry, so I would assume, based on his training etc... a rifle of some sort with mags and ammo, and perhaps a side arm with the same, not an entire arsenal. but I mean where are the reports of ANY weapons found in the cabin. Im sure once they get the whole cover up story figured out, we will be told that he had a bazooka, and some bombs, and 3 dead hookers in the basement.

From what I heard last night when the cabin owners son called into CNN, those cabins were searched two days prior by LEO. so most likely the only weapons Dorner had were what he was able to carry, so I would assume, based on his training etc... a rifle of some sort with mags and ammo, and perhaps a side arm with the same, not an entire arsenal.

as for trying to bring him in alive... your from the LEO family, you tell me... One would assume said armored bobcat would be more than capable of punching a hole in the wall of the cabin allowing access, or perhaps a well timed entry team along with flash bangs and a distraction of some sort, perhaps even bringing in a negotiator to try and talk him out, or the ever popular wait him out game that has also been used in the past. There was pretty much zero effort put into getting him out of the house and arresting him. Hell, a well placed shot from a sniper team at the right time couldve wounded/incapacitated him allowing an entry team to go to work and take him into custody. There are many many tactics that could have been pursued but were not. It all seemed very very rushed yesterday, did they bring in negotiators? NO, did they in fact confirm it was Dorner? NO, Did they confirm that he was in fact without a doubt alone in the house? NO,... and the list goes on and on Chris....I have always been under the impression that LEO are here to protect and serve, while remaining inside the constraints of the laws and rights we have. As of late there are more and more examples of this not being the case. It is beginning to seem the motto have indeed changed "to punish and enslave". I would love to see a LEO"guidebook" that can explain how and why burning down a cabin to kill who is inside/ or to force him outside into a hail of gunfire had he tried to escape (which would also kill him), is in any way, SOP (standard operating procedure). Last time I checked, Manson, Gacy, Dahlmer were all granted due process, and they were much more twisted and killed more/responsible for more deaths then Dorner. So because he crossed the thin blue line and tried to stand up for what was right, only to have his entire world stripped from him, that allows the LEO's involved to also strip away his granted rights to due process? If thats the case, then it needs to go the other way too, if a cop is accused of doing something wrong, then lets not even look into it. Let's just can his ass, strip his badge, and tell him to kick rocks and go get on unemployment..... As for whoever mentioned why he didnt kill the people whose truck he stole, read his manifesto that he left on FB, his rage was very, very directed. He had no beef with Joe Citizen, he had a beef with LAPD and those who stood in his way. That is why he didnt kill those other people or take hostages. They were not part of the problem in his mind. Like I said repeatedly... This was purposefully done to end Dorners rampage, but more so to make sure the was no trial that could risk bringing to light the corruption of the LAPD. Also as stated earlier, for all those involved, I am happy this has most likely come to an end and that there will be no more bloodshed over this. But I am disgusted in the manner in which it was resolved. A gross violation of our rights, regardless of circumstance, is NOT the correct answer. Ever. This tragic series of events will also unfortunately be used as another stepping stone to push NoBama and Feinsteins gun control, which sadly, will allow more and more gross violations of our constitutionally granted rights, seeing as we will no longer be able to defend ourselves, be it from criminals, crooked ass cops, or big brother itself. What went down yesterday was a series of poorly timed, improper decisions regarding this matter. When LEO begin to throw our rights out the window, it makes me worried. That is the first line of a citizens defense against anything injust. I might catch some heat for this next part, and no disrespect to the members here that I know are LEO or related to LEO, but I pity those in uniform who try to strip my rights, be it my right to due process, my right to say as I please, or my right to keep and bear arms... I dont care who you are, or what agency your tin says you represent, try to strip my rights and I'll make this fiasco look like fucking romper room. Ive tangled with LEO over my rights before, kicked their ass that time. Ill do it again, by force if necessary.

You are correct I did mess that up. One guy was not even hit, but the mother and daughter were both injured in the first shooting. The mother took rounds in the back. Regardeless, a white guy sure doesnt match Dorners description, neither does a mother and daughter delivering newspapers. I understand the urgency with which the police wanted to catch this guy, but before smashing into citizens trucks and opening fire, one would assume it to be a prudent decision to make a positive ID on the people in the vehicles. Just more proof that LAPD is a wild reckless department IMO. As for who started the fire, its very clear if you listen to the recordings from police scanners. The police started the fire. theres some of it, and theres more if you are keen with google. You can clearly here them discussing "preparing the burner", deploying the burner, confirming the house is indeed on fire etc.... Also I find it funny the while watching live coverage last night, it was kind of ironic that right about the same time they start saying they think the cabins on fire, all the media helicopters were then asked to fly higher and not zoom in on the cabin.... gotta make ya wonder just a bit. and really, it makes sense, if all the stuff Dorner said about how fucked up LAPD is, the easiest way to handle the situation is to make sure Dorner is dead, that way after a week or so, everyone will forget it ever happened, and nothing bad about the LAPD would be brought to light in Dorners trial. Think about it, almost makes a bit to much sense. And youre a tool for liking your own post. I understand that LAPD has issues...dirty cops scandals and such... But you realize they weren't lead on this..it was SanBernardino Sheriffs..my uncle one of them...his close friend was killed yesterday by the asshole in the cabin. They ask them to not zoom in so they don't show their tactical locations...and at the end of the day I don't give two shits if one of those cops put a bullet in that man or he did it himself... He killed that girl and her fiance for no reason...shot at Sherrifs deputies..injured one killed the other..POS got what he deserved. As for crooked cops they're pieces of shit too...but LAPD wasn't lead in Big Bear..not their juristiction and not the ones involved in the shootout. and yeah police started a fire...big whoop..they gased him and he wouldn't come out or give up so they used the armored bobcat...(look up SWAT Bobcat its cool) and used that to provide cover while they did. Good tactics...I wouldn't want to be lead going into that house against him..and they didn't need anymore dead LEO's. Nowhere did I say I advocated what Dorner did you got that part right? And further more, regardless of what he did or didnt do, he is still protected by the same bill of rights that we are. It appeared very minimal effort went into taking him alive. LAPD is a shitbag of a police force, period. And regardless of who "had the lead" in Big Bear yesterday, its all one in the same when it comes to the thin blue line isnt it? All Im saying is I think less effort went into capturing him then there should have been. It seems as if the goal at hand was to kill him and be done with it, not to bring him into custody. Furthermore, according to the sheriffs departments own rep, at the time they set the house on fire, they still had not made a positive ID on who was or was not in the house. By no means am I saying Dorner was right in anything he did, but I am also saying it appears plenty of mistakes and shadyness have went on with this as well, and sadly if dorner was indeed killed yesterday, the entire story will never be known. You cannot argue with that. If the accusations made by Dorner about LAPD are true (which they are) the easiest way for the situation to be handled was to make sure Dorner is dead, that way there is no trial, no risk (or at least one less chance) of the LAPD being help responsible for being the shitbag organization it has become. So please, get a good grasp of what Im saying before you fly off the hook. Nowhere did I say I thought DOrners cause was just, nor did I defend his actions. He was a nut that needed to be stopped. Properly. Not murdered. If you support the bill of rights, and the freedoms we have as citizens, you need to take a step back and realize that if indeed the fire was started by the "police" that makes it more clear their intent was never to bring him in alive. That, is a disgusting violation of a citizens rights. We are all entitled to due process, regardless of the heinous actions we take. As for not zooming in to reveal their "tactical" locations, thats complete bullshit. So it was ok for their "tactical" positions to be zoomed in on and revealed for hours beforehand, but suddenly once they are going to set the house on fire, they need to conceal these positions? Bullshit. I am pretty sure Dorner was more then well aware he was surrounded, not to mention a majority of their perimeter was under the cover of trees, and only the property immediately surrounding the cabin was clear and visible. Dont try to beat me down here, Im glad its over and done with and happy Dorner wont continue on his spree, by the same token, I am disgusted at the blatant disrespect for our constitutionally granted rights exhibited here. If they can throw the bill of rights out the window for Dorner, and just kill him instead of bringing him to trial they can do it to anyone. Especially with our "great" POTUS and his new laws about being able to kill americans at will without due process if they are suspected of terrorist activity.

Nothing has been confirmed in either direction. Ive also seen some stuff that says they will not even confirm if they pulled a body from the remains of the cabin. Anyone else listen to the phone call that was recorded that has the complete audio of the fire fight earlier yesterday between (possibly) Dorner and the Fish and Game guys? sounded like a lot of rds were let loose just in that confrontation.

Just to add to how incompetent and reckless LAPD is, the truck the mother and daughter were driving, was not even the same color as Dorners. Way to be LAPD. If that had happened to my family, my wife, my daughter, I'd own that entire department. I would also press for aggravated assault and/or attempted murder charges to be brought on the dimwits that wrongly shot up my shit. That is inexcusable, no ifs and or buts about it. Especially the truck that wasnt even the same color. Keepin my big white ass outta LA, based on current events, they might mistake my 6'4'' 260lb self for a midget of a different race that's on the run and shoot the fuck outta me.

You are correct I did mess that up. One guy was not even hit, but the mother and daughter were both injured in the first shooting. The mother took rounds in the back. Regardeless, a white guy sure doesnt match Dorners description, neither does a mother and daughter delivering newspapers. I understand the urgency with which the police wanted to catch this guy, but before smashing into citizens trucks and opening fire, one would assume it to be a prudent decision to make a positive ID on the people in the vehicles. Just more proof that LAPD is a wild reckless department IMO. As for who started the fire, its very clear if you listen to the recordings from police scanners. The police started the fire. theres some of it, and theres more if you are keen with google. You can clearly here them discussing "preparing the burner", deploying the burner, confirming the house is indeed on fire etc.... Also I find it funny the while watching live coverage last night, it was kind of ironic that right about the same time they start saying they think the cabins on fire, all the media helicopters were then asked to fly higher and not zoom in on the cabin.... gotta make ya wonder just a bit. and really, it makes sense, if all the stuff Dorner said about how fucked up LAPD is, the easiest way to handle the situation is to make sure Dorner is dead, that way after a week or so, everyone will forget it ever happened, and nothing bad about the LAPD would be brought to light in Dorners trial. Think about it, almost makes a bit to much sense. And youre a tool for liking your own post.

So is anyone going to mention the 3 innocent people killed by LAPD, in two seperate incidents, just because they were in vehicles that matched the description of what Dorner was driving? Not that it justifies any of this, but still worth mentioning, seeing as racism and abuse of power are the things that ignited all of this... Sounds to me like some of what Dorner had problems with was true. I am in no way justifying Dorners actions, but by the same token, there is now proof ( recordings from police scanners) that they (the police) purposefully set the cabin on fire. I think that they had absolutely no intentions of bringing Dorner in alive, because the issues he had with LAPD and its corruption are true, they knew if they brought him in alive, a lot of those things would come to light and things would be all bad for LAPD. So the easiest way to resolve all of this was to make sure Dorner was dead. regardless of his actions, justified or not, a murderer or not, Dorner was a citizen of this country and is granted the same rights that the rest of us are. He was/is granted the right to trial, just like all of us. Also I feel that going back earlier in the evening the "cover up" started to hide their(LAPD etc.) actions regarding this matter, such as Bachmann(?), her answers for everything were "I dont know", which is an easy way to deflect lying to the media. Also I find it funny that right about the same time the cabin magically caught fire, all the helicopters covering the events were commanded to fly at a higher altitude and to not zoom in on the cabin ( again allowing things to happen without people seeing what was going on.). Moral of the story here IMO, the shit Dorner had a problem with is absolutely true, the is corruption and issues within the LAPD, there have been for years and years. I feel that the "conclusion" of all these tragic events, was played out exactly how the LAPD wanted it to be played out. If dorner is dead, people are safe, and so is the LAPD from scrutiny from higher powers. His side of the story, true or not, justified or not, will never fully come to light. I feel they purposefully tried to kill him by setting the cabin on fire for 2 reasons, one to stop a madman on a rampage, and two, to cover their own asses from being investigated for being a twisted, racist, abusive police force. My feelings and loyalties towards this are just a big mash up right now, albeit Dorner lost any support from me once he killed that innocent girl. She had nothing to do with this. By the same token, I feel that if it was indeed Dorner in that cabin, he was purposefully killed to cover up a larger issue, that being the corruption of the police force. Which, regardless of what has went down, and regardless of Dorner killing people, he is granted the same rights as the rest of us. A right to a trial, etc. As a staunch supporter of the bill of right, I do have to take issue with this aspect, for if I dont, I am a hypocrite. Like the old saying " I may not agree with what you have to say, although I'll give my life defending your right to do so..." or something to that effect.

No one lived there. Empty rental cabins.